Plug wire, spark plugs and dwell, New info on post 24 Options

[McMark]

They're LS2 style coils. I think the LS1 vs LS2 is an oversimplification of the variety of LS coils that are available. But there is one critical difference between LS1 coils and all the newer 'LS2' coils -- the wiring is different.

I've tried multiple times to narrow in on proper dwell for these coils, but I always come back to the idea that because of variances in production methods and quality you have to test and set the dwell for each setup. But that's my typical overthinking I suppose.

Realistically, you can lower the dwell a bit and see if it helps the arcing, as well as evaluate if there are any power decrease or smooth-ness decrease. If a lower dwell helps the problem and doesn't have any negative side affects, go ahead and run it.

[JamesM]

Dwell recommendation in the MS Manual was lowered for both LS1 and LS2 from 4.5 to 3.5 for some reason. I am guessing those things just really kick. The fact that it was lowered though make me suspect that others may have been having issues with arcing and/or melting coils using the previous recommendation. Just stood out to me as odd that they would have changed the recommendation last time i read through the manual so i figured it worth mentioning. Not sure I would rule out a possible bad component at this point yet though.

I agree on the need for fine tuning and variance in aftermarket coils and for the application. I like running the VW logic level coil packs for the wiring simplicity but seems there is a HUGE variance in quality with those between the aftermarket and VW factory coils. I still chose aftermarket though and take my chances as there is also a HUGE variance in price (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

They're LS2 style coils. I think the LS1 vs LS2 is an oversimplification of the variety of LS coils that are available. But there is one critical difference between LS1 coils and all the newer 'LS2' coils -- the wiring is different.

I've tried multiple times to narrow in on proper dwell for these coils, but I always come back to the idea that because of variances in production methods and quality you have to test and set the dwell for each setup. But that's my typical overthinking I suppose.

Realistically, you can lower the dwell a bit and see if it helps the arcing, as well as evaluate if there are any power decrease or smooth-ness decrease. If a lower dwell helps the problem and doesn't have any negative side affects, go ahead and run it.

[Rand]

Sometimes it feels like we try to do too much to these old TIVs. They are only good for so much and don't like all the extra hop ups. Not the best engine for real performance.

[VaccaRabite]

So a bunch of things have been coming to mind lately on this issue.
I was driving the car between rainstorms Saturday, pushing it pretty hard since it was having a "good running" day.

It occured to me that my issues could be the spark plugs. When I'm having issues, its while I'm driving the car around town or with the kids in it, and the engine is running cool to cold (head temps around 250 - temps on this engine rarely get above 330 even climbing hills on the highway in 5th).

I am thinking that the root of the problem may be that I need one range hotter plug, and my plugs are just fouling around town, never getting hot enough to go into self cleaning mode. I'm running NKG BP6ES plugs, and just bought a set of BP5ES plugs (one range hotter for NKG). my thinking is that these may go into self cleaning mode a little easier, and won't load up as much driving around town or taking my son to scouts, etc.

This is plug 4. Keep in mind it only has a few hundred miles on it. It seems to me to be ok to cold. And this was after driving the car pretty hard for an hour, and then taking a slightly more sedate cruise home via wet back roads. Yes, my car is tuned rich.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-1435-1557770670.1.jpg)
I know its hard to read plugs with modern fuels.

Next issue. My car's tune has the dwell set to 6.2ms and not the 3.5ms that is currently suggested in the megamanual. right now I only want to change one thing at a time and new plugs will be here Wednesday. Is it safe running that dwell, or am I doing to overheat my LS2 coils. Each plug has its own coil pack.

Finally, the Magnecore custom wires are getting made up. My current (ba-da tsss!) thinking has me on a path that the wires really aren't the issue, but I'll have the nice new ones.

Zach

[crash914]

I am running around 4ms on my coils. 2ms spark duration and 6ms cranking dwell

[VaccaRabite]

The new plugs came in today. Hopefully I’ll be able to get them on the car and go for a test ride around town before 1) the next monsoon hits and 2) before I’m camping with the scouts all weekend.

We shall see.

Zach

[VaccaRabite]

The BP5ES plugs came in last week.
The Magnecore wires came yesterday.

The wires need to go back. They messed up the order. I'm sure they will make it right.

The plugs I gapped at .045 (which is the going recommendation for LS2 coils.) From what I have been reading, too small a gap causes misfires. So that may have been a contributing issue to my problem, since the old plugs were gapped much tighter then that.

Using the old plug wires, seemed like it idled easily - but with brand new clean plugs that would be expected. maybe tomorrow I'll get a chance to drive it.

Zach

[crash914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

[VaccaRabite]

Magnecore is shipping out two new wires today. I knew they would stand by their product.

Zach

[crash914]

not to rain on the party, but I seem to remember some issue with Magnacore wires with the LS coils? I ran the magnacore with my stock coil with no issues, but with the sequential setup I am using the stock LS wires.

[Frank S]

Hi Zach,

with Megasquirt I think you should use the NGK BPR6ES or BPR5ES.

B.R.
Frank

So a bunch of things have been coming to mind lately on this issue.
I was driving the car between rainstorms Saturday, pushing it pretty hard since it was having a "good running" day.

It occured to me that my issues could be the spark plugs. When I'm having issues, its while I'm driving the car around town or with the kids in it, and the engine is running cool to cold (head temps around 250 - temps on this engine rarely get above 330 even climbing hills on the highway in 5th).

I am thinking that the root of the problem may be that I need one range hotter plug, and my plugs are just fouling around town, never getting hot enough to go into self cleaning mode. I'm running NKG BP6ES plugs, and just bought a set of BP5ES plugs (one range hotter for NKG). my thinking is that these may go into self cleaning mode a little easier, and won't load up as much driving around town or taking my son to scouts, etc.

This is plug 4. Keep in mind it only has a few hundred miles on it. It seems to me to be ok to cold. And this was after driving the car pretty hard for an hour, and then taking a slightly more sedate cruise home via wet back roads. Yes, my car is tuned rich.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-1435-1557770670.1.jpg)
I know its hard to read plugs with modern fuels.

Next issue. My car's tune has the dwell set to 6.2ms and not the 3.5ms that is currently suggested in the megamanual. right now I only want to change one thing at a time and new plugs will be here Wednesday. Is it safe running that dwell, or am I doing to overheat my LS2 coils. Each plug has its own coil pack.

Finally, the Magnecore custom wires are getting made up. My current (ba-da tsss!) thinking has me on a path that the wires really aren't the issue, but I'll have the nice new ones.

Zach

[VaccaRabite]

Hi Zach,

with Megasquirt I think you should use the NGK BPR6ES or BPR5ES.

Hey @Frank_S
I just installed a set of NKG BP5ES plugs. I'm not sure what the R would signify. Resistor?

Zach

[crash914]

Yes, R is the resistor version. I think the magnicore wires are high resistance also.

[VaccaRabite]

Yes, R is the resistor version. I think the magnicore wires are high resistance also.

Yes. I specified resistor wires for an EFI application.

Zach

[Frank S]

Hi Zach,

with Megasquirt I think you should use the NGK BPR6ES or BPR5ES.

Hey @Frank_S
I just installed a set of NKG BP5ES plugs. I'm not sure what the R would signify. Resistor?

Zach

Hi Zach,
yes, resistor type. I'm just about to upgrade my engine with Megasquirt and the resistor spark plugs were strongly recomended to me as the standard spark plugs could generate to much noise.

Cheers,
Frank

[VaccaRabite]

After the lightning, thunder, hail and a possible tornado I got to drive the car this afternoon.
These are the NKG BP5ES plugs gapped to .045.

First thing I noticed was that the car was idling more evenly. But I just chalked this up to new clean plugs.

Second thing I noticed was that my CHT was reading about 25-50 degrees hotter. You could really notice the one range hotter plugs on the CHT.

The car has a bog just off idle that needs to be tuned out. It’s drivable but you have to be ginger getting going from a stop. It also pops a little on over run. Not loud, and not all the time, but it’s there.

I’m looking for a place in the area that 1) knows aircooled and 2) knows Microsquirt for some dyno tuning. I think I have the plug issue fixed.
I’m thinking either Steve Limbert at Aircooled Racing or Paul at Euro something in Harrisburg. Translog here in York knows my car, but I don’t think he really knows MSII. Or at least did not a few years ago. But I’ll give him a call and see.

Zach

[VaccaRabite]

I talked to Steve at Aircooled Racing, and on Tuesday I'm going to be setting up some time for my car to get re-tuned over there.

The replacement 2 wires from Magnecor came in today and went on the car.

Yesterday, I was able to drive the car to the local Friday show. Due to a fatal accident that had I-83 shut down for about 9 hours, it took over an hour to drive the 5 miles to the show on country roads which were totally blocked with cars. My car DID NOT like sitting on hills and just idling, and by the time I got to the show the car was missing pretty bad due to fouled plugs.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-1435-1558826944.1.jpg)
But I was able to bring a little class to a huge show full of american iron. And the plugs cleared up on the drive home due to a bit of spirited driving.

Zach