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> More Novice Help Please, Suspension, CV Joint and Front Suspension Disassembly
Highland
post May 13 2019, 03:20 PM
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More amateur help please, this time with CV joint and front suspension:

1) I've only taken apart one axle, but I found some pitting on one of the outside bearing. Pictured is the worse example:

Attached ImageAttached Image

Can I address this by swapping the transmission end for the wheel end? I notice they ride in slightly different locations.

2) Having much trouble taking apart the front suspension.

a) Can I just use a fork to pry this off or do I need a puller/pusher device? I have neither so trying to avoid buying both. Soaking in PB Blaster now. Boot is already torn so a fork would do no damage, just looking for the easiest way.

Attached Image

b) According to the Haines Manual the bolt/pin shown is suppose to come out to release the ball joint (held in by a semi-circle feature?). Mine looks like it is permanently attached to the strut. How do I get it out?

Attached ImageAttached Image

3) When removing the control arms do the adjusters need to be wound loose? Can the cross support bar be left in place?
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76-914
post May 13 2019, 03:34 PM
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Yes you can use a fork. Put the nut back on the bolt and whack it with a hammer. It will loosen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Superhawk996
post May 13 2019, 03:39 PM
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1) You can but it is only a temporary solution at best. The problem is finding replacement CV joints. See other treads on this site for details.

2)
A. Do Not Pry. Ideal case is use a tie rod puller - actually pretty cheap to buy or often available to rent at AutoZone, PepBoys, NAPA, etc.

Alternative is to soak it in liquid wrench - wait for this to work to loosen any surface rust. Then use two hammers. One heavy hammer and a lighter ball peen hammer. Use the heavy one to hold steady behind the cast iron knuckle. Use the lighter one to whack the cast iron knuckle (several times). This will usually free the tie rod end from the knuckle.

B. There is a wedge shaped taper pin there. It needs to be soaked in liquid wrench. Then drive out with a soft faced hammer or brass drift to release the ball joint.

In either case A or B, a little heat helps but you have to be very careful not to melt or burn the rubber boots if you are planning to reuse them. Don't overheat the strut either - the cartridge has oil in it that will be degraded by high heat.

3) You can wind them loose but likely the torsion bar splines are corroded into the caps. More liquid wrench. More heat at ends being careful since bushings are rubber - no heat if you plan to reuse the A-arm bushings. Lots of wiggling back & forth, Lots of hammering with soft dead blow hammer. More swearing. Cross bar can be left in place.

Others may have more elegant methods but these have worked for me over the years.
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jtprettyman
post May 14 2019, 03:45 PM
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For item #2, I'll second Superhawk - use a tie rod puller. Not expensive, or you can do the AutoZone loaner tool (I have, then bought one). Works like a charm.
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Highland
post May 14 2019, 04:19 PM
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Thanks.

2a) Followed your advice and went to Autozone. This is the tool I used. Both Pitman style pullers were too large. Lucky Autozone is close to my house. What a bang when it let loose.

Attached Image

2b) Just want to make sure this pin is to come out. I'm soaking in PB Blaster. What tools have others used to drive this pin out?

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porschetub
post May 14 2019, 04:23 PM
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I hate the fork tool as they tend to destroy the rubber boot...ok if you are replacing the ball joints.
Proper ball joint removal tools are the way to go as mentioned,I have a Sykes one made in the UK ,wind it up tight and strike each side of the arm together with 2 hammers for the tight ones ,forget penetrating lube as it won't do squat on tapers.
Yes last resort is to use some heat on the steering arm with a butane torch .
If you are reusing the ball joints refit the nut so you don't mushroom the thread with a ball joint tool when removing.
When refitting new or good used ones hit them in to the taper with a brass or hard nylon face hammer so they don't turn when refitting the nuts.
CV joints ...any galling or chipped hardening on the races and balls involves moving to the nearest rubbish tin with the effected parts,don't for a minute think they will be ok,years worked on front drive VW Golfs taught me this ,no different in this situation.
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Highland
post May 14 2019, 08:25 PM
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What is the proper tool for removing the pin attaching the strut to the A-arm ball joint?

Picture would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Do most just replace the ball joint? My boot is still solid, but is that the only criteria?
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Luke M
post May 15 2019, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE(Highland @ May 14 2019, 07:25 PM) *

What is the proper tool for removing the pin attaching the strut to the A-arm ball joint?

Picture would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Do most just replace the ball joint? My boot is still solid, but is that the only criteria?



Put the nut back on the threads, grab the biggest hammer you have and give it a good smack. Those pins are suppose to be a one time use only. You can buy new ones at PP, PMB or the dealer.
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914Toy
post May 15 2019, 02:07 PM
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QUOTE(Highland @ May 14 2019, 07:25 PM) *

What is the proper tool for removing the pin attaching the strut to the A-arm ball joint?

Picture would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Do most just replace the ball joint? My boot is still solid, but is that the only criteria?


I used a tool like the one you got from Autozone - you may have to use some "spacers" like large washers or nuts to position it.
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Superhawk996
post May 15 2019, 06:34 PM
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QUOTE(Luke M @ May 15 2019, 03:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Highland @ May 14 2019, 07:25 PM) *

What is the proper tool for removing the pin attaching the strut to the A-arm ball joint?

Picture would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Do most just replace the ball joint? My boot is still solid, but is that the only criteria?



Put the nut back on the threads, grab the biggest hammer you have and give it a good smack. Those pins are suppose to be a one time use only. You can buy new ones at PP, PMB or the dealer.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I prefer soft faced hammer (copper or brass) to minimize mushrooming of the stud and/or the nut. Best if you thread the nut almost all the way on leaving about 1/8" gap to the strut bottom. If this doesn't work with a good whack or two, heat the strut bottom with propane torch then try again. I've reused these pins before but the point was that if you bugger up the treads, they are replaceable.

Not a bad idea to replace ball joints on any car as old as teener's. Getting those off is another fun project. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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mepstein
post May 15 2019, 06:57 PM
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I bought a pair of 911 struts super cheap because someone cut the ball joint shaft off with a saws-all and left the shaft stuck in the bottom of the strut. Took the struts into our shop and had a guy weld a big nut to the cut shaft. Clamped the nut in a vise and twisted the strut. Shaft popped out in 2 seconds. Welding the nut on heated everything up. So if you run into trouble, remember heat is your friend.
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malcolm2
post May 15 2019, 07:32 PM
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Tangerine Racing has CV joints. If 3 of yours are good, just get one. He takes Type 1 joints and makes the work. Adds an o-ring. Thing I found was that his Boot cover plate has 6 holes.... we only need 4. So I plugged up 2.
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Superhawk996
post May 15 2019, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ May 15 2019, 08:57 PM) *

I bought a pair of 911 struts super cheap because someone cut the ball joint shaft off with a saws-all and left the shaft stuck in the bottom of the strut. Took the struts into our shop and had a guy weld a big nut to the cut shaft. Clamped the nut in a vise and twisted the strut. Shaft popped out in 2 seconds. Welding the nut on heated everything up. So if you run into trouble, remember heat is your friend.


Where do you find all these crazies. A plywood floor and now someone that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) the ball joint stubs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)
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mepstein
post May 15 2019, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE(Superhawk996 @ May 15 2019, 09:33 PM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ May 15 2019, 08:57 PM) *

I bought a pair of 911 struts super cheap because someone cut the ball joint shaft off with a saws-all and left the shaft stuck in the bottom of the strut. Took the struts into our shop and had a guy weld a big nut to the cut shaft. Clamped the nut in a vise and twisted the strut. Shaft popped out in 2 seconds. Welding the nut on heated everything up. So if you run into trouble, remember heat is your friend.


Where do you find all these crazies. A plywood floor and now someone that (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) the ball joint stubs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

I sold real estate for 15 years. The car stuff pales to what crazy stuff people do to their houses.
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KELTY360
post May 15 2019, 10:23 PM
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QUOTE(76-914 @ May 13 2019, 02:34 PM) *

Yes you can use a fork. Put the nut back on the bolt and whack it with a hammer. It will loosen. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) This is a job for a big hammer and a forceful blow on the casting. The parts will just pop free.
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76-914
post May 16 2019, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE(Luke M @ May 15 2019, 12:39 PM) *

QUOTE(Highland @ May 14 2019, 07:25 PM) *

What is the proper tool for removing the pin attaching the strut to the A-arm ball joint?

Picture would be great (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Do most just replace the ball joint? My boot is still solid, but is that the only criteria?



Put the nut back on the threads, grab the biggest hammer you have and give it a good smack. Those pins are suppose to be a one time use only. You can buy new ones at PP, PMB or the dealer.

Back to post #2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)
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Highland
post May 16 2019, 07:10 PM
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More heat and I got the ball joint pins out. Kind of a strange non-symmetrical taper. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

Thanks for everyone's support; kept me hammering and heating away.

So a couple more questions:

1) I believe someone mentioned the torsion bar would likely be corroded in the cap(rear?). So is the recommended method to unbolt the front of the A-arm then more heat and hammering? Where is the best place to hammer on the A-arm so I won't break anything?

I haven't tried to remove the A-arm yet for lack of a long enough allen to get inside the front cover.

2) Do torsion bars "sag" like coil springs? I have 100 lb springs and Bilsteins in the rear and plan on using Bilstein inserts in the front. Is it recommended to replace the torsion bars too (even if there's no visible damage)?

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Superhawk996
post May 16 2019, 07:20 PM
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Nice job. You’re on your way!
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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mepstein
post May 16 2019, 07:35 PM
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Usually, you only need to replace torsion bars if they are heavily corroded or worn a grove in the rod when the bushing fails. You do need to maintain the same sides as they started.
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bbrock
post May 16 2019, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE(malcolm2 @ May 15 2019, 07:32 PM) *

Tangerine Racing has CV joints. If 3 of yours are good, just get one. He takes Type 1 joints and makes the work. Adds an o-ring. Thing I found was that his Boot cover plate has 6 holes.... we only need 4. So I plugged up 2.


On a recent thread, he said he quit doing them since they were available through Porsche again, but then we learned what Porsche sells are actually 914-6 joints under the old 914-4 part number so maybe he can be convinced to start selling modded Type 1 CVs again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

QUOTE(Highland @ May 16 2019, 07:10 PM) *

2) Do torsion bars "sag" like coil springs? I have 100 lb springs and Bilsteins in the rear and plan on using Bilstein inserts in the front. Is it recommended to replace the torsion bars too (even if there's no visible damage)?


AFAIK, they just break rather than sag. They usually break when the car is sitting, which is rather kind of them. I wouldn't replace them if they look good unless you want to go with heavier bars. I think new stock bars may be hard to find. I"ve been told you can even sand out pitting to smooth it out and they'll be fine. Just don't mix up left and right when you put them back in. They are stamped on the ends.

I'm guessing others have better ways to get torsion bars out, but I've always managed to get them out without heat. I just pull or tap the rear adjuster off and that gives access to wiggle the bar around while pulling until it comes loose in the front. It has been a fight sometimes, but I eventually win. Also, if you remove the front nose covers, there will be cover discs over the ends of the a-arm tubes. If you pop those out (you''ll probably have to drill them to get a screw driver in to pop them out), you'll be looking at the front end of the torsion bar which you can then drive out with a drift (after the rear adjuster is removed of course)

I have no experience with heating them. Just be aware that heat will destroy the rubber bushings but if you plan to replace them, you are going to burn them out anyway.
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