How much does a 2.7 / 3.0/ 3.2 change the feel of the car? Options

[patssle]

With a 3.0L in mine I really don't feel that much of a difference in car handling from the 4 cylinder days. But the car is a freaking rocket now with ~200 hp. The handling puts a smile on my face way more than my Boxster S.

Any six is going to require a brake upgrade

I'm running stock brakes on mine and it's just fine. I've even autocrossed and the brakes never overheat but can lock up the tires. Only for track would I say brake upgrades are necessary.

[Mark Henry]

Probably the most notable difference between my 2270 and 3.2 six is drivability. There isn’t any angry snotty behavior with the six. It starts, idles, and runs like a daily driver. But when you hit the angry pedal? Bye-bye!

I don't have any snotty behaviour with my FI 2.6L T4 in my bug, but the 3.0 914 with carbs is way smoother. Both are steet high performance, the T4 is sort of an off/on switch (but not as bad as a T1), where as the power from the carbed /6 is more linear. The /6 you press the go pedal easy and it drives like a modern car, press harder the faster in goes, but it's still a smooth transition. Same with deceleration.
I have healthy cams in both, at idle the T4 lops, moderate vibration through the car, the 914/6 idles like silk once warm.
BTW I was going to put the T4 in my 914, but then I drove a /6 and the plan changed mid build.

Only reason I'd choose a mag case over the 3.2 would be because I also have a 911 project and it would make that cars value higher.
If you only have the 914, choosing the Al case 3.2 would be a no brainer for me.

[mb911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I like the smaller 2-2.4 only because the entrance fee is much less allot of times not required will be a front oil cooler thus saving you 1500-2500 off the bat.

The 3.0 or 3.2 are ideal though from a longevity standpoint.

[rgalla9146]

^ Some great input above.

My 2.2 six conversion definitely doesn't feel as light or "momentum" as it did as a four, but I wouldn't go back. It just feels special in a way that's hard to describe. The car always felt like cheap fun—in the GOOD way Miatas and MR2s do—as a four, but feels more exotic and sophisticated as a six. Heavier, too. And maybe not quite as flingable...but I hold out hope that I can dial the suspension in further. Not that it's bad...but there's something very cool about the lighter fours.

Any six is going to require a brake upgrade, but PMB's alloy Brembo setup or any 911 front brakes should be enough. Count on a five-lug conversion as well, if you go for the latter.

If you want to keep the body narrow, I think 180-200hp is the sweet spot—so I'd look at hot 2.2s, 2.4s, and other engines up to the SC 3.0 or maybe a 3.2 that's dead stock. Of course, the bigger the displacement, the more you get into the conversion. Oil coolers, 915s, etc add a lot to the cost. I like the 2.2 because you can get nice hp (I am not wishing for more power) without big torque, which is what starts upsetting the transmission, driveline, and/or chassis. YMMV here.

The engine in my car is a 190-200hp E/S 2.2, and it feels and sounds great. There are times where I wish it was injected instead of carbureted, but that wasn't in the budget. If you want civilized, I wonder about a 2.4 MFI or even 2.4 CIS? Or just a nice 2.7 or 3.0 CIS? Add a stock muflfer and I suspect that would be a very nice package....

Once you go past 200hp, I'm starting to think about flares and all sorts of other stuff. you're soon re-engineering the car—not that there's anything wrong with that! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I recently drove a '73.5 911 2.4 CIS.....been a while since I drove an
early 911.
Comparerd to my GT project with the 2.0 911 T engine it was a friggin'
powerhouse

[Tdskip]

Great discussion gentlemen.

[Larmo63]

[thelogo]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

[mepstein]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

I drove that 3.6 engine in a light, early 911. It’s an E-ticket ride.
I just bought another 3.2 for my flared car. It’s the perfect engine for my needs.
I’d almost call it an investment, like Fuchs, six cylinder engines keep rising in price.

[Tdskip]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

Why so little driving?

[Tdskip]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I like the smaller 2-2.4 only because the entrance fee is much less allot of times not required will be a front oil cooler thus saving you 1500-2500 off the bat.

The 3.0 or 3.2 are ideal though from a longevity standpoint.

Really - they run cool enough they don't need a front cooler?

[Mark Henry]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

I call BS on that for a proper sorted T4, Last summer about a 80-90F day I drove my 2600cc (78 x 102mm) for 4 hours to London Ont, average 85mph but it was all stop and go through Toronto. Then 4 hours back. My head temps never went much over 300F.
Except for the exhaust drone and rough ride of the lowered bug I'd have no worries driving my T4 coast to coast.

My old type 1 2007cc (78 X 90.5mm) I drove to florida, Manassas VA for shows, all over...then I put it in my 67 bus and drove to PEI, Halifax, Bay of Fundy and home, I think the trip was close to 3000 miles.

A big engine can be built to be reliable, it just costs money, time, research and sorting to do it right.
If your big T4 isn't reliable you built the wrong combo.

[thelogo]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

Why so little driving?

Work gets in the way (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)

[thelogo]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

I call BS on that for a proper sorted T4, Last summer about a 80-90F day I drove my 2600cc (78 x 102mm) for 4 hours to London Ont, average 85mph but it was all stop and go through Toronto. Then 4 hours back. My head temps never went much over 300F.
Except for the exhaust drone and rough ride of the lowered bug I'd have no worries driving my T4 coast to coast.

My old type 1 2007cc (78 X 90.5mm) I drove to florida, Manassas VA for shows, all over...then I put it in my 67 bus and drove to PEI, Halifax, Bay of Fundy and home, I think the trip was close to 3000 miles.

A big engine can be built to be reliable, it just costs money, time, research and sorting to do it right.
If your big T4 isn't reliable you built the wrong combo.

I didn't build it .i bought it built already from a member here who had the /6 fever ... So i got a hell of a deal
(Thanks Sir keith)


Its been very reliable so far
But a 2336 without nikkies or a temp guage

I dont wanna press my luck

And you cant compare so cal driving to oh canada

+

Congrats to kyle Lowry for leading the team to victory
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer3.gif)

[mepstein]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

I call BS on that for a proper sorted T4, Last summer about a 80-90F day I drove my 2600cc (78 x 102mm) for 4 hours to London Ont, average 85mph but it was all stop and go through Toronto. Then 4 hours back. My head temps never went much over 300F.
Except for the exhaust drone and rough ride of the lowered bug I'd have no worries driving my T4 coast to coast.

My old type 1 2007cc (78 X 90.5mm) I drove to florida, Manassas VA for shows, all over...then I put it in my 67 bus and drove to PEI, Halifax, Bay of Fundy and home, I think the trip was close to 3000 miles.

A big engine can be built to be reliable, it just costs money, time, research and sorting to do it right.
If your big T4 isn't reliable you built the wrong combo.

I drove Oscar's 2.4-4 at WCR. Fantastic car. Never hesitated the entire weekend, driving warm weather up mountain roads. I'm not a four hater.

[Tdskip]

It would be interesting to see a big four (2.2 or 2.4) vs a /6 cost since the big fours will require coolers etc as well, right?

I suppose, outside the engine, the cost saving there is more standard exhaust set up and using stock engine mounts?

[thelogo]

It would be interesting to see a big four (2.2 or 2.4) vs a /6 cost since the big fours will require coolers etc as well, right?

I suppose, outside the engine, the cost saving there is more standard exhaust set up and using stock engine mounts?

I think i got the last 5k engine
It was complete from intake to flywheel to exhaust
And it has a under the truck setrab cooler with fan.


So cost is definitely a factor

I got it used so it was a risk and a hell of a deal at the same time .

/6 prices i just cannot handle (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

[914_teener]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

I call BS on that for a proper sorted T4, Last summer about a 80-90F day I drove my 2600cc (78 x 102mm) for 4 hours to London Ont, average 85mph but it was all stop and go through Toronto. Then 4 hours back. My head temps never went much over 300F.
Except for the exhaust drone and rough ride of the lowered bug I'd have no worries driving my T4 coast to coast.

My old type 1 2007cc (78 X 90.5mm) I drove to florida, Manassas VA for shows, all over...then I put it in my 67 bus and drove to PEI, Halifax, Bay of Fundy and home, I think the trip was close to 3000 miles.

A big engine can be built to be reliable, it just costs money, time, research and sorting to do it right.
If your big T4 isn't reliable you built the wrong combo.

I drove Oscar's 2.4-4 at WCR. Fantastic car. Never hesitated the entire weekend, driving warm weather up mountain roads. I'm not a four hater.

Think that is a Raby motor in that car but not sure.

That was a fun drive.

[andys]

Back about 1974, I had a 1973 914-4. 2.0L, and my room mate had a 914-6, 2.0L. Both were factory stock (and both were blk/blk, though mine had AC); I could jump from one to the other. My experience was that everything about the 914-6 felt way more lively than my 914-4....... as a 45 year old recollection.
Andys

[mepstein]

The /6 can do ( all day long) what a big 4 can do for
( 90 mins )
On. Angeles crest

But as colin champman would say
There is no replacement for "performance thru lightweight"

So i personally stay away from /6 build/dreams
And i rarely run my big /4 for longer then 90 mins
So works out well for me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smoke.gif)


Not that im not tempted
With a 3.6 in the fs forum here for 18k

Temptation is everywhere

I call BS on that for a proper sorted T4, Last summer about a 80-90F day I drove my 2600cc (78 x 102mm) for 4 hours to London Ont, average 85mph but it was all stop and go through Toronto. Then 4 hours back. My head temps never went much over 300F.
Except for the exhaust drone and rough ride of the lowered bug I'd have no worries driving my T4 coast to coast.

My old type 1 2007cc (78 X 90.5mm) I drove to florida, Manassas VA for shows, all over...then I put it in my 67 bus and drove to PEI, Halifax, Bay of Fundy and home, I think the trip was close to 3000 miles.

A big engine can be built to be reliable, it just costs money, time, research and sorting to do it right.
If your big T4 isn't reliable you built the wrong combo.

I drove Oscar's 2.4-4 at WCR. Fantastic car. Never hesitated the entire weekend, driving warm weather up mountain roads. I'm not a four hater.

Think that is a Raby motor in that car but not sure.

That was a fun drive.

Yes. An older Raby build with an estimated 170hp. If it was my car, I would be happy. With a better driver behind the wheel it could keep up with most anyone.

[Mark Henry]

It would be interesting to see a big four (2.2 or 2.4) vs a /6 cost since the big fours will require coolers etc as well, right?

I suppose, outside the engine, the cost saving there is more standard exhaust set up and using stock engine mounts?

About 2/3 of the cost of a /6.
A lot of factors so that's a real rough ballpark.

Several years ago a big four with nickies was a wash with doing a /6 conversion, but with the price of 911 cores/parts now I'd say it's back at 2/3 again.