2.4s -6 engine fuel injection options Options

[mb911]

So my 2.4 is fresh -0 miles with only start up minutes on it. I rebuilt the carbs and powdercoated the steel air filter assembly and replated all the hardware and am really thinking of selling the setup in favor of running a 3.2 fuel injection setup on likely with an aftermarket ecu as I don't think the dme will work well with my setup..

Any thoughts or experience with what I am proposing? Now note that I have done this on a 3.0 before with good success just no experience with a higher compression low displacement solex cam engine.. Thoughts?

[914Toy]

So my 2.4 is fresh -0 miles with only start up minutes on it. I rebuilt the carbs and powdercoated the steel air filter assembly and replated all the hardware and am really thinking of selling the setup in favor of running a 3.2 fuel injection setup on likely with an aftermarket ecu as I don't think the dme will work well with my setup..

Any thoughts or experience with what I am proposing? Now note that I have done this on a 3.0 before with good success just no experience with a higher compression low displacement solex cam engine.. Thoughts?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[mb911]

Contacted bitz racing about megasquirt options and also Sal cancelled about adapting the stock DME and that seems like an option as well.

[Larmo63]

My car has run pretty sassy on Webers for a long time.

DC-30 E/S cams.

[mepstein]

I’d leave it as is - the ultimate coffee table.

[mb911]

My car has run pretty sassy on Webers for a long time.

DC-30 E/S cams.

@Larmo63 my only concern is that with the drastic temp changes here I will be messing with carbs all the time.. (Did that with my last -6).. I would think they would be awesome in a climate like yours.

[Larmo63]

Yeah, I see your point now that I looked at your location.

FI might be the ticket.....!

[rktmn247]

I would contact al lkosmal X-Faktory on the bird board. He has many documented efi conversions on small to large engines.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5_xXcJYXVc

[Mark Henry]

sdsefi.com has about the simplest learning curve and works well with a single TB system. It also can be tuned as you drive saving on dyno time.
Can also be plugged into a a laptop with full data logging, fuel only, MSD or crankfire ignition etc.

[mb911]

sdsefi.com has about the simplest learning curve and works well with a single TB system. It also can be tuned as you drive saving on dyno time.
Can also be plugged into a a laptop with full data logging, fuel only, MSD or crankfire ignition etc.

Hmm that maybe worth a look. I just really want to run fuel as everything else is rebuilt as new

[Mark Henry]

sdsefi.com has about the simplest learning curve and works well with a single TB system. It also can be tuned as you drive saving on dyno time.
Can also be plugged into a a laptop with full data logging, fuel only, MSD or crankfire ignition etc.

Hmm that maybe worth a look. I just really want to run fuel as everything else is rebuilt as new

Em5-6D (includes harness)
options needed
1 bar MAP sensor
TPS
Bosch 12X1.5mm Temp Sensor

I'd also get a fuel pump relay

[mb911]

Mark what about cht?? And is there any base map or am I on my own?

[Mark Henry]

Mark what about cht?? And is there any base map or am I on my own?

I believe the temp sender I listed is for aircooled.

It will start right up with the base map. It tunes with a pendant that I mount on an old ashtray right in my heads up line of site.
It has a rich/lean knob, you do a steady rpm (say 3000) turn knob to the desired AFR on the meter (or pendant), look at the knob value, scroll to 3000rpm fuel value and enter the new value, done and onto 3250rpm. Rinse, wash, repeat.
Your map will be about 95% tuned after about a 45 minute county drive. At that time you do a data log to a laptop and look for things to improve on.

There will be many who say they don't like the system, too simple, most of the things they will cite are bells and whistles you don't need.
Below is the perceived bad points

-SDS is batch fired only, no sequential, but sequential is of little use on an aircooled because it's only effective below 3000rpm. This fact is right in the MS FAQ's. Sequential shines with fuel economy below 3000rpm, which is great for a water cooled engine, but lugging a aircooled engine below 3K isn't good.
-SDS fuel only systems doesn't have knock control, only available on the units with ignition control, but it's really of little use on a noisy aircooled engine.
-The SDS MAP sensor doesn't like a poor vacuum, for hot cams, big duration and ITB's you have to run "TPS only". MS is a hair better, but you would still have to run what MS calls "alphaN" which is a fancy name for "TPS only".
But this shouldn't be an issue at all with solex cams and the 3.2 single TB intake.
-Some can't get past the pendant tuning, too simple, too archaic, but to me it's a plus as you don't have information overload and can tune as you drive. All the missing info can be datalogged and reviewed on your laptop after you have safely pulled off the road. This can also be done in real time.

The plus
-Simplest EFI system to tune.
-No dyno tuning time needed.
-Easier learning curve for old farts (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
-real time or saved datalogging.
-harness included, custom injector harness.
-fuel only system can be installed and running in one weekend. Of course this is the electrical only on an existing FI engine, in your case doesn't count installing the 3.2 manifold, pressure reg, pump, plumbing, mods, etc.

On a T4 single TB 1.8 and several 2.0 I've done they ran exactly like a stock factory FI system, My car with a basically stock 2.0 and C25 scat cam I ran for 3-4 years never once having the pendant installed other than the initial tune.

[mb911]

Mark it looks like something that would be perfect for me.. Once I get all the 3.2 intake system in place I will need to check this out more in depth.. One question though does it come with injectors?? I didn't see that on their website..

[roblav1]

Same sort of boat I'm in...trying to figure out either PMO 46 or engine management system. 3.0 liter, 9.5 CR, same cams as Mark.
Not sure what Ben was referring to with carb changes depending on temperature. I never had a problem... in cold, just press accelerator pedal a few more times to get it going. Then it'll run bailky for 5 minutes until warm. BTW, most of my experience is with small displacement Solex and S cam engines with Webers.

[gereed75]

Do not have a system running yet but have been collecting stuff to do an EFI using MFI throttle bodies and stacks. They are available fairly cheap and the 2.4 heads have injector ports in them already. I think I will use the AEM system offered by Rasant Engineering.

It will have all modern engine management with a cool retro vibe. There are a number of these out there running in various configurations. Rothsport is beginning to do a few. If nterested I can send some links.

[Tdskip]

@Mark Henry - what would that sort of set up cost?

[Mark Henry]

Mark it looks like something that would be perfect for me.. Once I get all the 3.2 intake system in place I will need to check this out more in depth.. One question though does it come with injectors?? I didn't see that on their website..

No system does, they do sell them separately, but you can find them cheaper.

Same sort of boat I'm in...trying to figure out either PMO 46 or engine management system. 3.0 liter, 9.5 CR, same cams as Mark.
Not sure what Ben was referring to with carb changes depending on temperature. I never had a problem... in cold, just press accelerator pedal a few more times to get it going. Then it'll run bailky for 5 minutes until warm. BTW, most of my experience is with small displacement Solex and S cam engines with Webers.

This is where it gets harder to tune than Ben's app.
ITB's and large duration cams have a very poor vacuum signal that the MAP sensor needs to read. My T4, 2.6, hot cam, 46mm ITB's, I could never get a good enough vacuum signal to run on the MAP sensor so I have to run TPS only (alphaN). In very simple layman terms the MAP sensor acts like the a carb accelerator pump, poor vacuum could be loosely compared to a hole in the accelerator pump diaphragm. As soon as I gave up on the MAP and tried TPS only all my issues disappeared.

(BTW I just know someone going to argue that the MAP isn't an accelerator pump no matter my "very simple layman terms" statement. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) )

@Mark Henry - what would that sort of set up cost?

http://www.sdsefi.com/prices.html

Ben's application, fuel only

Em5-6D (includes harness) $1115
options needed
1 bar MAP sensor $73
TPS $90
Bosch 12X1.5mm Temp Sensor $39

I'd also get a fuel pump relay $30
Optional fast idle, $100, I didn't get this 10-30 seconds of holding the throttle and then it idles.

other items needed
-Injectors (new style injectors will need fuel rails, not sure but the 3.2 rails might work)
-intake and TB(s), (stock will work may need sensor bungs welded in)
-FI pump (stock FI will work)
-Pressure regulator (stock D-jet will work)
-WB O2 meter or at least the sensor (SDS does read through ECU so gauge is optional)
-return fuel line.

Likely I'm missing a few items.

[mb911]

@tdskip they are about 1300-1600 depending on what you get . that's right from sdsefi.com

As to temp changes and carbs I can tell you that rejetting in our neck of the woods is very common as we have temp and humidity changes that swing from 100 degrees in summer to 35 degrees in fall and spring and don't talk about winter.. Efi compensates for this.

[Mark Henry]

I don't know if that's the right head temp sensor, best to call.
My SDS head temp sensor screwed right into the stock 914 2.0 location. In fact IIRC it was the same as a stock 914 head sensor.