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> Fluid on the floor: What could it be?, (time to take a brake?)Slight mystery upon returning from Okteenerfest
Mikey914
post Oct 8 2019, 10:38 PM
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No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 9 2019, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.




thanks for the info, I took a look at the video on the install, and I do think I like the idea of getting rid of having just a grommet. sucks that I have a MC that was installed less than 5 years ago and here its leaking this bad. That seal should not have failed this soon. I have 4 vehicles that are 13-15 years old that have not had to have a master cylinder replaced. in fact the last one on the 914 was replaced it was 20 years old and had been sitting, but this should not have failed so soon.

will be placing my order for the new MC today - already did all the hard and soft lines when I did my suspension and that MC , all else look good. but I have to do a lot of clean up to get the fluid out, I probably should pull my pedal assembly- it was rebuilt back 5 years ago, but should I get one with new brass bushings etc? -

Phil
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 9 2019, 08:02 AM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.


mark,

placing order and wondering if the Okteenerfest 914 discount code is still viable and if so can you PM me with details.

Phil
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dr914@autoatlanta.com
post Oct 9 2019, 08:31 AM
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yes master cylinder has failed. As much trouble as they are to replace I would purchase a new fte or ate cylinder and install after cleaning up the pedal cluster area of brake fluid and resultant debris and bleed thoroughly with ate brake fluid. The 19mm master cylinder is not that expensive can be bought for 220 at any of the usual suppliers, and is well worth it. 914 17mm has been discontinued
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 9 2019, 09:26 AM
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QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Oct 9 2019, 10:31 AM) *

yes master cylinder has failed. As much trouble as they are to replace I would purchase a new fte or ate cylinder and install after cleaning up the pedal cluster area of brake fluid and resultant debris and bleed thoroughly with ate brake fluid. The 19mm master cylinder is not that expensive can be bought for 220 at any of the usual suppliers, and is well worth it. 914 17mm has been discontinued


I agree doc, need to get that brake fluid cleaned off the floor and the pedal cluster- in just a week or 2 the fluid that leaked thru the floor had already melted away the paint and primer on the floor pan , so lots of clean up . ATe fluid do you mean the dot3/4 stuff synthetic? will have to flush the whole system out anyway I figured. .
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Mikey914
post Oct 10 2019, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:02 AM) *

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.


mark,

placing order and wondering if the Okteenerfest 914 discount code is still viable and if so can you PM me with details.

Phil

Yep good to the end of the month. Just PM me if you have any issues using it.
Mark
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 16 2019, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 10 2019, 05:27 PM) *

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:02 AM) *

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.


mark,

placing order and wondering if the Okteenerfest 914 discount code is still viable and if so can you PM me with details.

Phil

Yep good to the end of the month. Just PM me if you have any issues using it.
Mark


Mark,
first of all thanks for the super fast shipping on the MC! it arrived yesterday and I hope to get at it tonight or atleast this weekend. My gas tank is in so I will have to work the lines around that, with the new fittings on top there will not be much room above the MC to the gromets where the supply lines come thru so in order to splice these into place it looks like I will have to trim those off at the bottom after pulling the supply lines back up and into place,
I watched the install video and looks to be fairly straight forward, only other thins is I guess if my tank was out I would probably look at putting new supply line in even though these look ok they are the old original ones, I didn't know it this is a specific type of plastic for brake fluid?
anyway, tell Scott thank you!

Phil -
will post some pics when I get on to this.
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 18 2019, 07:10 AM
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I did get this project partly completed last night, taking out the old one was not that hard, about 20 minutes to get it pulled out, and once out of course you can see the front seal was leaking , as evidenced by the fluid inside the car.
I ordered the 19mm new MC from 914rubber which has the threaded connection on top so you can clamp the new lines on. it is up and in place but not fully connected yet, due to lack of time(prior commitment) , but I should be able to connect the lines tonight in just a few minutes.
my biggest issue is that I am doing this laying on my back with car on jack stands, and its a bit tight in there with the steering rack in place etc, would be easier with at least a scissors jack tp get it up higher, I now have a knee I cant bend very far due to a torn meniscus so it gets tricky trying to bend and roll around under a car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

I hope this MC and the seals last longer than the last one, because 4 years is NOT long enough, I hope I don't ever have to do this job again.
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Mikey914
post Oct 18 2019, 09:24 AM
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Yes, mush easier job on a rack, If you need new lines we can supply. They are not formed, but may make the job easier.
Thanks,
mark
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Mikey914
post Oct 18 2019, 09:27 AM
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Also,
On the old one after yo get this done. Can you post up some pictures, I'm curious as to how it failed, any good seal should have lasted at least a decade. Wondering if there may have been a contributing reason.
Mark
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 18 2019, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 18 2019, 11:27 AM) *

Also,
On the old one after yo get this done. Can you post up some pictures, I'm curious as to how it failed, any good seal should have lasted at least a decade. Wondering if there may have been a contributing reason.
Mark


will do. from first glance last night I pulled off the front rubber thing and you can see the fluid was leaking out front, not sure what you call it but as the brake pedal is pushed you push the rod into the MC and it compresses or pushes in the xxxx( plunger?) that would compress the fluid and cause the caliper to grab, well every time I was pushing on this it was coming out around that seal onto the floor around the pedal assembly, this started at some point during Okeenerfest or right around when I got back, at least that was when I first noticed the puddle in the garage, and heavy use on the mountain roads really got it going I guess.

PHil
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 18 2019, 09:40 AM
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I would assume this could be rebuilt and a new seal installed? if so how hard is this to do? is this something you do Mark? or PMB?

it is a 19mm ATC 911 MC
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76-914
post Oct 18 2019, 10:19 AM
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QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 18 2019, 08:40 AM) *

I would assume this could be rebuilt and a new seal installed? if so how hard is this to do? is this something you do Mark? or PMB?

it is a 19mm ATC 911 MC

Good luck finding the kit for it. MC kits were readily available for all cars in the 70's & 80's. Also. this isn't something you'd want to tackle w/o some knowledge of how to do it. First you had to determine if it was rebuildable. If the bore was pitted or scratched the MC was junk and red tagged. That being said, I rebuilt a pitted MC on my 56 Chevy a couple of times in a 2 week period just to keep me on the road until I could buy a rebuilt one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Mikey914
post Oct 18 2019, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 18 2019, 08:40 AM) *

I would assume this could be rebuilt and a new seal installed? if so how hard is this to do? is this something you do Mark? or PMB?

it is a 19mm ATC 911 MC

There were kits in the day. However, it is up to the re builder to get it right, and there are some issues that can't be fixed.

Not really worth the time an energy to rebuild as many are too far gone.
Just out of curiosity is it an ATE? Should be a stamp on it.

mark
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malcolm2
post Oct 18 2019, 10:46 AM
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Google.... Or I used duck duck go now, but search for 911 master cylinder rebuild kit. tons of them. surprised we haven't gotten the "it's your safety" comment. But it would be nice to have one on the shelf for next time.

95$ here:https://www.aasesales.com/products/da3c-b52...e4626&_ss=r

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Mikey914
post Oct 18 2019, 12:36 PM
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Interesting,
We could on the next run do up extra parts and make rebuild kits for MUCH less. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 18 2019, 01:16 PM
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QUOTE(malcolm2 @ Oct 18 2019, 12:46 PM) *

Google.... Or I used duck duck go now, but search for 911 master cylinder rebuild kit. tons of them. surprised we haven't gotten the "it's your safety" comment. But it would be nice to have one on the shelf for next time.

95$ here:https://www.aasesales.com/products/da3c-b52...e4626&_ss=r

I started to google that right after posting that but did run across Pelican and Stoddards , some sites I cant access here at work, so I have to wait until I get home, but it did seem a bit pricy for what you are looking at to rebuild these.

its interesting that my first MC failure had no leaking but internally no longer was able to hold pressure, and I think this is the most common failure.

This one failed by leaking out with out actually loosing any pressure or braking function so I didn't have a clue it was happening until the big puddle appeared in the garage floor.

- pictures tonight!
Mark, if you do a rebuild kit I would think this would pay off over time .

I have no idea where the parts in these other kits are sourced from in other words, where are they and by whom are they manufactured? AASE, Stoddard, Pelican, and AA have the kits but who makes the components?

I would like to rebuild this one that failed and have one on the shelf just in case of future failure of this new unit I am installing.
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IronHillRestorations
post Oct 18 2019, 01:41 PM
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I have a 1500 mile master cylinder that needs a seal kit. I've rebuilt several master cylinders over the years (not in a long time though) without any trouble, even way back when I was a total newbie 40 years ago, but there are master cylinders that can't be rebuilt.

I do understand why kits aren't available, but IMHO (and with all due respect to our good vendors) it's mostly legal BS that keeps rebuild kits off the shelf. I don't think I'd sell them either, due to the old 13 1/2 theory.
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malcolm2
post Oct 18 2019, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 18 2019, 01:36 PM) *

Interesting,
We could on the next run do up extra parts and make rebuild kits for MUCH less. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)


There you go. I suppose it would not be good to "include a rebuild kit" with you brand new MC... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)
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DRPHIL914
post Oct 19 2019, 04:12 PM
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5 hours , MC in, pedals removed floor and pedal cluster cleaned up and reinstalled - that had to be done , that was about half the install time, the other 2.5 was fighting with the hose onto the new fittings and getting it proper and tight- in the end, it looks ok but

It has to come back out! Major leak from between the new fittings and the MC- the supplied o-rings are not doing their job and that really sucks. I had a feeling about that when I first installed the new fittings as I had a hard time keeping those o-rings from squishing out, I should have listened to my gut at the time and called 914rubber about the o-rings possibly being too big- now it has to come out and I have wasted my whole afternoon.

So that’s it, I and not going to have the car at car show next Saturday or the cruise in on Thursday. I don’t have another afternoon or night between now and then to Fuchs around with this and re-do it.

BTW, this took longer to do than the last time with just pressing the grommets and lines in place but I figured what the heck, let’s do this it should be leak proof and never mess with it again-

I think the design itself is fine, but not the thing to be doing if your steering rack is still in and you are lying in your back under the car. But MC was shot so it had to be done.
Well maybe tomorrow I will pull it and see if Lowe’s has an O-ring that will work ,but I may be more frustrated right now then I have really ever felt doing a repair on this car.

I need to go take a blood pressure pill I think I am going to blow a gasket (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif)


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