No power to injectors again!, Got spark, gas, at a total loss Options

[surfdogskier]

I do want to mention. If she sets for a little while and I go to crank her, she will try to turn over. It is like she is getting a spitter of gas. It is much like if you spray starting fluid and it hits the plugs except it doesn't last but a second or so.

I am going to check my trigger points again like I mentioned. One thing also when I was going through this before is the MPS. If it was touching metal it seems like, the car would not start. I would move it and she would start. I also noticed the plug can go in both ways but only one way allowed it to start. Now I have her mounted where she suppose to go but I just wonder if that could be my issue. Anyway to check that? Do these things go bad?

[914_teener]

I do want to mention. If she sets for a little while and I go to crank her, she will try to turn over. It is like she is getting a spitter of gas. It is much like if you spray starting fluid and it hits the plugs except it doesn't last but a second or so.

I am going to check my trigger points again like I mentioned. One thing also when I was going through this before is the MPS. If it was touching metal it seems like, the car would not start. I would move it and she would start. I also noticed the plug can go in both ways but only one way allowed it to start. Now I have her mounted where she suppose to go but I just wonder if that could be my issue. Anyway to check that? Do these things go bad?

Wiring. But check them anyways as Jeff has said.

Most problems with the stock FI are wiring.

I'd take the whole harness out....ring out all the ends and clean all the grounds while you have the dizzy out.

Visually inspect it. If there are cracked wires.....I'd hit up Jeff for a new one.

[Bartlett 914]

How do you know you are not getting power the the injectors? This is not a static signal. Pull one and point it into a jar and crank it. Make sure you are getting something or not. Are you sure you have fuel pressure?

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

probably two of the injectors spitting a bit of gas when the key is turned on. You can turn the key off on off on off on off on and then hit it and if the car starts and dies, you know that the two of the trigger points are sending a signal.

By the way, will the car run continually if starting fluid or gas is sprayed into the throttle body?

I do want to mention. If she sets for a little while and I go to crank her, she will try to turn over. It is like she is getting a spitter of gas. It is much like if you spray starting fluid and it hits the plugs except it doesn't last but a second or so.

I am going to check my trigger points again like I mentioned. One thing also when I was going through this before is the MPS. If it was touching metal it seems like, the car would not start. I would move it and she would start. I also noticed the plug can go in both ways but only one way allowed it to start. Now I have her mounted where she suppose to go but I just wonder if that could be my issue. Anyway to check that? Do these things go bad?

[surfdogskier]

I is like it has a drop of gas to tease it. I tried that with the starting fluid and it didn't go so well. Ended up catching my engine on fire for a bit. Fortunately nothing was really harmed other than some singhed wires which I replaced.

[surfdogskier]

How do you know you are not getting power the the injectors? This is not a static signal. Pull one and point it into a jar and crank it. Make sure you are getting something or not. Are you sure you have fuel pressure?

I put a noid light on them and no power. All my plugs are firing.

[surfdogskier]

Then you have power to the ECU. Somewhere between the harness plug and the 2 wire injector connectors is the discontinuity. The trigger points initiate the voltage pulse to the injectors. The ECU processes the several engine sensors to determine the pulse width. No power to the injectors at idle could be worn out trigger points, a bad ECU, disconnected injector grounds, bad harness wiring. Maybe more. I would check the trigger points as has been mentioned, use an ohmmeter. Pull the dizzy, or check it in the car while cranking. You are looking for alternating continuity between the center pole and each of the two outer poles as the diz is rotated. No continuity, no pulse, no voltage, noid light no worky.

Trigger points have continuity. Tested with a ohm meter. That eliminates that. And they are very clean when I pulled them them the first time.

[surfdogskier]

I decided I am finished with fuel injection. I don't trust it and not dropping anymore into it. Converting to carbs.

[ClayPerrine]

I decided I am finished with fuel injection. I don't trust it and not dropping anymore into it. Converting to carbs.

You will hate the carbs even more. Poor mileage, gas smell, etc. And you have a lot of fabrication to get the throttle hooked up. And lots of patience to get them synced and running correctly.

I would suggest finding a local 914 guru (there are a lot of them on here) that is willing to help you sort the injection before you bail and switch to carbs.

[surfdogskier]

I decided I am finished with fuel injection. I don't trust it and not dropping anymore into it. Converting to carbs.

You will hate the carbs even more. Poor mileage, gas smell, etc. And you have a lot of fabrication to get the throttle hooked up. And lots of patience to get them synced and running correctly.

I would suggest finding a local 914 guru (there are a lot of them on here) that is willing to help you sort the injection before you bail and switch to carbs.

I can't imagine hating anything worse than this. I have dropped a lot of money in this thing to get it running. My friend has one with carbs and he loves it. This has been a project over the past year. Mileage and smell don't bother me. I'm a diesel guy so I am use to that. It's to the point you jump in the car and wonder will it start and if it does for how long. To many variables to worry with. I not in it for keeping things original and stuff. She is being created as a fun car to just scat around in in the summer primarily.

[IronHillRestorations]

Just don't over size the carbs; bigger isn't better, correct is better. Buy from a vendor that will size the carbs to your engine. Get a distributor from a 1.8 and connect the vacuum advance, don't use a 009.

I'd be the last person to dog on you for ditching the injection, I did the same years ago when I had to rely on my 914 as a daily driver. Yes, there are downsides, but not being able to trust and drive your 914 is a bigger downside.

[Bartlett 914]

How do you know you are not getting power the the injectors? This is not a static signal. Pull one and point it into a jar and crank it. Make sure you are getting something or not. Are you sure you have fuel pressure?

I put a noid light on them and no power. All my plugs are firing.

I have never used a noid light so I don't know how that would work on an injector circuit. I am still suspicious about this being an injector firing issue. Did you try as I suggested? Remove a pair of injectors so they can be inserted in jars. Try starting several times to see if you are getting fuel. Are you sure you have fuel pressure? I am a firm believer in the KISS principle. Keep it simple and make sure all the basics are covered before jumping into more complicated causes

[surfdogskier]

How do you know you are not getting power the the injectors? This is not a static signal. Pull one and point it into a jar and crank it. Make sure you are getting something or not. Are you sure you have fuel pressure?

I put a noid light on them and no power. All my plugs are firing.

I have never used a noid light so I don't know how that would work on an injector circuit. I am still suspicious about this being an injector firing issue. Did you try as I suggested? Remove a pair of injectors so they can be inserted in jars. Try starting several times to see if you are getting fuel. Are you sure you have fuel pressure? I am a firm believer in the KISS principle. Keep it simple and make sure all the basics are covered before jumping into more complicated causes

I did not pull the injectors since I had a noid light which showed no power. All 4 plugs have fire so they are obviously not get any gas being supplied by the injectors. Again, to many issues with fuel injection. I am going to make it simple. I am converting to carbs which I have already bought along with new fuel pump and distributor. I am so looking forward to ripping this stuff out and moving on.

Anyone interested in a fuel injection set up, I will be selling it all.

[ClayPerrine]

Anyone interested in a fuel injection set up, I will be selling it all.

How much?

[rhodyguy]

By the time you've done the swap you'll be in another $800+ just in NEW parts. You would be better off having an outfit like Ironhill examine your car. Perry knows what he's doing. Are you two in distant corners of Tenn?

[surfdogskier]

By the time you've done the swap you'll be in another $800+ just in NEW parts. You would be better off having an outfit like Ironhill examine your car. Perry knows what he's doing. Are you two in distant corners of Tenn?

He's in West TN and I'm in East TN. I already got my setup ordered for me to put in next week.

[surfdogskier]

Anyone interested in a fuel injection set up, I will be selling it all.

How much?

That I do not know. I want to get my carbs installed and running first then deal with that. I have no idea what I can get out of it. All new injectors and new fuel pump.

[JeffBowlsby]

Surfdog, please don't take this personally, just trying to turn this into a learning experience for all, going forward. These are old cars. If these parts are work out, then they may need replacement - standard maintenance for any car.

The easy thing and for some, the hardest thing about D-Jet is that there are only a limited number of components, and each of them can be tested individually for function with either an ohmmeter, fuel pressure gauge, a few simple tools, or a service can test these for you. If each of these tests good, then the system is plug N play. If not...maybe its another problem and not the FI?

ECU - rarely go bad...but maybe. Not expensive to replace.
FI harness - simple continuity test, new are available.
IGN harness and tri-spade ground, - simple continuity test, and new are available.
MPS - easy to test with the right equipment, rebuilt available, not expensive.
Trigger points - easy to test, lasts a long time and can be adjusted if worn.
TPS, with gaskets - inexpensive new boards are available.
270ohm resistor (1973 2.0L only)
4 fuel injectors - Maintenance cleaning is not expensive, aftermarket injectors available
1 cold start valve injector and thermo switch (optional)
TS1 (air temp) (optional)
TS2 (head temp), available
Fuel pump, spendy for the OEM, functional alternative pump not expensive.
Fuel pressure regulator - do these ever go bad?

The air supply related parts - rarely a problem unless the plenum or gaskets are leaky, and those are repairable/replaceable.

[surfdogskier]

Surfdog, please don't take this personally, just trying to turn this into a learning experience for all, going forward. These are old cars. If these parts are work out, then they may need replacement - standard maintenance for any car.

The easy thing and for some, the hardest thing about D-Jet is that there are only a limited number of components, and each of them can be tested individually for function with either an ohmmeter, fuel pressure gauge, a few simple tools, or a service can test these for you. If each of these tests good, then the system is plug N play. If not...maybe its another problem and not the FI?

ECU - rarely go bad...but maybe. Not expensive to replace.
FI harness - simple continuity test, new are available.
IGN harness and tri-spade ground, - simple continuity test, and new are available.
MPS - easy to test with the right equipment, rebuilt available, not expensive.
Trigger points - easy to test, lasts a long time and can be adjusted if worn.
TPS, with gaskets - inexpensive new boards are available.
270ohm resistor (1973 2.0L only)
4 fuel injectors - Maintenance cleaning is not expensive, aftermarket injectors available
1 cold start valve injector and thermo switch (optional)
TS1 (air temp) (optional)
TS2 (head temp), available
Fuel pump, spendy for the OEM, functional alternative pump not expensive.
Fuel pressure regulator - do these ever go bad?

The air supply related parts - rarely a problem unless the plenum or gaskets are leaky, and those are repairable/replaceable.

Hey Jeff. Thanks for all the help you have given. Definitely not taken personally. I wish I could leave it but to many unknowns still. I just didn't want to keep dropping $$$ into something which I lost trust in. Just way to many components to keep up with when I can just convert it over to something much easier and in my opinion, more reliable. I just want a car that will start when I need it and take me from point A to point B and back. Don't need performance or gas mileage where my top speed will rarely exceed 55mph.

[JeffBowlsby]

No worries Surfdog, you are entitled to make the decision that is right for you.

I hope its not some other non-FI related issue that is the problem.