So what advantages, besides rear mount cooler, small /6 conversions offer? Options

[gereed75]

10 pounds per horsepower is a pretty quick car and that is fairly easy to achieve with a 914 and a good running 2.4

[Tdskip]

@mepstein - did those items you listed off come up to the +/-300 pounds?

[Superhawk996]

10 pounds per horsepower is a pretty quick car and that is fairly easy to achieve with a 914 and a good running 2.4

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

People are getting lost in modern horsepower wars that have warped our view of what is possible. A weight to power ratio of 7-8 is about where 1970's and early 1980's supercars like a Lambo were at.

Now look at the size of the rear tires on a Lambo. They couldn't even ground all the power on those tires without spinning them up. Don't even get me started about what tires that wide are like in the rain or worse yet, snow! You can't get enough tire under a 914 without resorting to GT1 style flares and/or running sticky Autocross type tires. IMHO HP without the ability to ground it is just wasted power.

What most don't realize is that modern cars are doing torque limiting in 1st and often 2nd gear. Yeah, the advertised HP numbers are huge but that is not what you're getting off the line in 1st and 2nd gear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif)

In the case of vintage machines like a 914 with a manual transmission, the transmission has to handle ALL the power or break the tires loose as the "fuse" to keep from breaking things like a ring or pinion. Now we're right back to wasted power.

Sure you can put in a 915 or G50 trans but here comes more weight in the rear of the car where it isn't needed.

At some threshold it becomes a viscious circle of HP begets more weight which then requires more HP (and tire grip) to accelerate it.

There is no easy or universal answer. . . . each person must choose thier own sweet spot.

[mepstein]

@mepstein - did those items you listed off come up to the +/-300 pounds?

Here are some of the things I came up with to remove 250-300 lbs. not all of the items are practical, reasonable or cost effective but it was just spitballing while waiting on a flight home. A 300lb / 15% weight reduction would make a pretty good difference in acceleration, braking and handling without changing the brakes, engine or suspension.

10 - Firewall pad
10 - floor tar
60 - lids
10 - engine lid
5 - rockers
20 - glass bumpers
20 - targa top
5 - carpet
15 - exhaust
10 - Backpad
20 - air control
5 - door hardware
185
10 - Seat sliders
5 - interior padding
20 - headlights
10 - steel crossbar
10 - Heat flappers & lever
30 - battery and
5 - battery tray
265
20- Headers

310

Additional items-
Pedal board
Targa latches
Vent window & trim
Shortened sub dash
Sun visors
Glove box & ashtray
Trunk locks F & R
Glove box lock
Windshield wipers
Windshield washer
Trunk heat shield ?
Brake caliper shields
Radio & speakers
Engine lid latch & cable
Front trunk latch & cable
Front carpet board
Spare tire
Center tunnel covers
Shift knob
Antenna

[914forme]

Pretty good list, but I can add to that.

Shorten all bolts - Free
Drill lots of holes in stuff - Free
Thin down things - Free
Acid dip the car and take a few thousands off everything
Carbon fiber will help you - but more $$$$
Magnesium Wheels - $$$
Remove all the gauges - Free Bike Speedo or your phone works - Free
lightest tires you can find - not free $$$ depends on what you wish to spend
Remove all glass - wear a helmet
Ditch the top, and all the trunk top related stuff - Free
Gun drill everything you can - Free
Replace everything you can with Titanium - not free, but can be fun in a fun way - Lathe Time
Remove the passenger seat - Free
Make a 911 engine into a -4 - not free, but lighter
Carry less fuel - Free
Aluminum any where you can - Free to $$$
Aluminum door skins - $$$
Did I mention drilling lots of holes

Carbon Fiber chassis - too many dollars to make this happen but we can dream.


Or just drive a really rusty 914 - they get lighter each and every day.

[mepstein]

I figured if I took off 200-250lbs, the weight of a six is almost a wash.

[johnhora]

Tdskip

What's the planned use for the 914...track/autox/street

Everyone please watch brant's video...it's what 914s are all about...
curves curves curves....see at about min 1:34 the old yellow mustang has just run out of grip as brant has been hunting it down..making up the time in the corners....and just listen to that 2.0L sing....I love it! (Nice Run Brant)

Also on the weight thing...
add in the weight of the oil for the front cooler/lines...about 1.7 lbs per qt.

[ClayPerrine]

Betty would say "This is cute, coming from the guy with the monster motor in his car..."

It's not all about the HP when it comes to track performance. Years ago, I was working a corner at Green Valley Raceway (sadly, it is a housing development now). I watched this Bugeye Sprite come out of the last corner and plant his foot on the floor for the long 1/2 mile straight that was also the drag strip. Within a few seconds behind him, a Big Block Vette came out of the same corner. The Vette blew by the Bugeye like he was standing still.

The next lap, I expected to see the Vette come out of the corner first. But the Bugeye came out of the corner, and the gap was bigger between it and the Vette. Same thing. The Vette blows by the Bugeye again.

Next lap, and the gap between the Bugeye and the Vette gets bigger coming out of the last corner. This happens consistently for enough laps that eventually the Bugeye was entering the hairpin at the end of the drag strip before the Vette cleared the last corner.

Seems the Bugeye was eating the Vette for lunch on the twisty parts of the circuit.


The moral of the story is that you need a chassis that handles as well as horsepower. So if you like a 2.0,2.2 or 2.4, go for it. Ultimately you have to drive the car, so build what makes you happy.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

As for me, I built my car because it was, as the Theme from Smokey and the Bandit says, "We gonna do what they say can't be done."

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Amen Clay.

I've seen different versions of that scenario play out all my life at different tracks.

My friends and I used to rent tracks to do our own track days. We ran 1 session of motorcyles and Go-Karts combined. I rode my race prepped CBR 600 race bike.

I could easily pull the Karts on the straights but there was no way to keep up with them in the corners. Since the bulk of any roadcourse track is corners. The Go-Karts eventually gap the bikes.

[mepstein]

Sounds like my Morini sport. Underpowered compared to other bikes from the early 70's but light and fun. Was known to ride away from most other bikes, especially big ones, when it got to the twisties. Reminds me of a little sports car I like.

[phillstek]

I’ve had four x sixes in my car over the 31 years of ownership. First was a 2.7 on webers that was great for about a week till it spun a main bearing and destroyed the case. Then came a 2.0 S that I got for $800 from a wreck that absolutely howled and sounded fantastic. I flogged the shit out of it and got 10 years of fun from it. Next was the 2.4 T motor which was underwhelming to say the least but all I could afford at the time. Currently running a 3.2 with nickies and 20/21 Web cam on motronic and love it.

3.2 is the best engine by far. Starts instantly, idles beautifully and totally tractable. Can doddle around town and get on it when required. 3.2 all the way!

[Maltese Falcon]

I think the hot rod T4 engines def have an advantage with an engine weight of only ( from the internet) = 265 lbs. Some of those later 964/ 993 engines are getting up there. For comparison; early LT-1 series Chev sb v8 = 619, and Cayenne 4.7L v8 = 574 lbs.

[jmitro]

the sound:
hallet race

OT but that's not Hallett. I've driven it many times (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

lexan windshield and rear window is big weight savings.
not to mention fiberglass front/rear fenders

[brant]

the sound:
hallet race

OT but that's not Hallett. I've driven it many times (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

lexan windshield and rear window is big weight savings.
not to mention fiberglass front/rear fenders

You are correct

My mistake
MPH. Hastings.

1820# wet

[sixnotfour]

I think the hot rod T4 engines def have an advantage with an engine weight of only ( from the internet) = 265 lbs. Some of those later 964/ 993 engines are getting up there. For comparison; early LT-1 series Chev sb v8 = 619, and Cayenne 4.7L v8 = 574 lbs.

418 pounds
GM 6.2-liter LS3 V8:
Length: 28.75 inches. Height: 28.25 inches. Width: 24.75 inches. Weight: 418 pounds (with accessories)

[mlindner]

Not sure of any advantage other than fun. Last stages of my 2.2 E with S pistons, PMO 40 and DRC mod-solex 30 cams.

[Mark Henry]

Any size /6 while I'd agree it's stupid money, but when you blip the throttle that sound is total jizz in your pants orgasmic.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1497554034_thumb.jpg)
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1497650959_thumb.jpg)

[Tdskip]

That engine looks fantastic

[mlindner]

That looks great Mark H. thanks for the pics.

[Mark Henry]

That engine looks fantastic

That looks great Mark H. thanks for the pics.

Thanks guys that's almost 8 years from start of buy, barter, trade, and then machine, assembly, mods, all the /6 conversion kit, did the 5-bolt conversion at the same time...way too much to list but you can see the build here .

And then...it's still not done, I have to do the front cooler, some more gauges to wire, collecting to do the 911 left hand key/ 911 turn switch mod ...it's a lot of work.
By the time all that is done I'll want to do a new paint job...it never ends

PLUS...I bought another 914, going to keep it stockish T4, my wifes summer DD or mine on rainy days.