Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V < 1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> OK guys - how to build a “civilized” 3.2 914/6
ConeDodger
post Dec 2 2019, 07:53 PM
Post #21


Apex killer!
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 21,320
Joined: 31-December 04
From: Tahoe Area
Member No.: 3,380
Region Association: Northern California



QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 2 2019, 10:50 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Coondog @ Dec 2 2019, 07:31 PM) *

Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)


I’d disagree that Ben’s heat exchangers are the “only” way to go. If you don’t require heat, MSDS headers are so sexy it’s a shame they’re out of sight!

@Maltese Falcon



Rob he was implying for heat .. There is not much out there for options..


Yes, true. But I’m not giving up my headers. I’m hoping you’ll heat box them for all of us with MSDS...
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Dec 2 2019, 08:15 PM
Post #22


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,921
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest



QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 05:53 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 2 2019, 10:50 PM) *

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ Dec 2 2019, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(Coondog @ Dec 2 2019, 07:31 PM) *

Plenty of us So Cal guys running around with 3.2s and yes Bens headers with heat exchangers are the only way to go. You can drive my car anytime. Just not for 500 miles.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)


I’d disagree that Ben’s heat exchangers are the “only” way to go. If you don’t require heat, MSDS headers are so sexy it’s a shame they’re out of sight!

@Maltese Falcon



Rob he was implying for heat .. There is not much out there for options..


Yes, true. But I’m not giving up my headers. I’m hoping you’ll heat box them for all of us with MSDS...



Rob,

I have actually been thinking about that lately.. I want to connect with Marty and talk about how consistent the header pipe route is.. Then make a mild steel enclosure that anyone can install and get heat.. I think it would be awesome for all the folks with headers..

Sorry back to our regularly scheduled programming everyone..

User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 2 2019, 08:46 PM
Post #23


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



Great discussion gentlemen, appreciate all the thoughts and responses.

I think I need to starting focusing more on NVH, as suggested.

I did several 500 mile days in that ‘74 2.0L car I drove from OR to SoCal and it was fine.

@mb911 - PM sent.

@Superhawk996 - yeah yeah yeah, I know, I know. I have naked Goldwing that eats that sort of mileage for breakfast but the /6 needs to be something my significant other can comfortably drive.

@dr914 @autoatlanta.com - thanks as always.

Appreciate ALL the thoughts and experiences and thoughts.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mb911
post Dec 2 2019, 09:01 PM
Post #24


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,921
Joined: 2-January 09
From: Burlington wi
Member No.: 9,892
Region Association: Upper MidWest



@tdskip pm'd back ..
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
914forme
post Dec 2 2019, 09:36 PM
Post #25


Times a wastin', get wrenchin'!
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,381
Joined: 24-July 04
From: Dayton, Ohio
Member No.: 2,388



I would also swap out the the seats for some Lemans GTS seats. Seat heaters and lumbar support is always nice adds.

Lots of sound deading is a nice add also. I would also add it to the top, and the cavity between the passenger compartment and the roll bar.

I would bolt down the top, but that is me, as it should stop some movement.

Beyond that I think the list has been covered here. 3.2 is a nice setup, I would grab most of my parts off Ben @MB911 as his stuff is great products, and he has almost everything you want to build your -6.

If you don't need it to look stock under the rockers Brad Meyer's 914LTD rocker kit will stiffen the car up nicely, and the Maddog kit, and it is a very stiff 914.

Of course you will need lots of seals 914Rubber, they also have the suspension stuff coming.

After that you will have spent some serious coin, but be all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) while racking up the miles (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 2 2019, 09:45 PM
Post #26


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



Thanks @914forme

This car has already been braced and has 911 brakes and front suspension, so it’s ready from that POV.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
sixnotfour
post Dec 2 2019, 09:47 PM
Post #27


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,753
Joined: 12-September 04
From: Life Elevated..planet UT.
Member No.: 2,744
Region Association: Rocky Mountains



tdskip..your all over the map was a small bore now its a 3.2.....collecting all this intell. ..pull the Fuchin Trigger ..Move Forward with Something.......
type 4 sale turbo, 75/76 exhaust,.blabla bla ...put a fuchin bumper on your toylet....my dad built lots of those conversions..BFD..


Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 2 2019, 10:02 PM
Post #28


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 10:47 PM) *

tdskip..your all over the map was a small bore now its a 3.2.....collecting all this intell. ..pull the Fuchin Trigger ..Move Forward with Something.......
type 4 sale turbo, 75/76 exhaust,.blabla bla ...put a fuchin bumper on your toylet....my dad built lots of those conversions..BFD..


@sixnotfour , ha, yes, looks messy until you remember that I have four of these darn things now (was five). None of them ran well enough to use when I got them, except for the OR roadtrip car. They all run and drive now, so some of those options were for the other cars that needed new/alternative engines. The 3.2 build was never in doubt, just sorting out the others to enjoy or move them along. I have two 2.0L I will be using in those so shifting my planning back to the 3.2 build.

I do like to gather information, helps result in good outcomes and I try to show that I do appreciate the education.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
sixnotfour
post Dec 2 2019, 10:04 PM
Post #29


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,753
Joined: 12-September 04
From: Life Elevated..planet UT.
Member No.: 2,744
Region Association: Rocky Mountains



QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 09:02 PM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 10:47 PM) *

tdskip..your all over the map was a small bore now its a 3.2.....collecting all this intell. ..pull the Fuchin Trigger ..Move Forward with Something.......
type 4 sale turbo, 75/76 exhaust,.blabla bla ...put a fuchin bumper on your toylet....my dad built lots of those conversions..BFD..


@sixnotfour , ha, yes, looks messy until you remember that I have four of these darn things now (was five). Some of those options were for the other cars that needed new/alternative engines. The 3.2 build was never in doubt, just sorting out the others to enjoy or move them along. I have two 2.0L I will be using in those so shifting my planning back to the 3.2 build.

I do like to gather information, helps result in good outcomes and I try to show that I do appreciate the education.

I have 12 BFD,, focus on one at time ...you see 4 of mine..
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 2 2019, 10:05 PM
Post #30


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 11:04 PM) *


I have 12 BFD


That is a lot! No wonder you know so much, take pity on those with far fewer and are still learning perhaps?
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
sixnotfour
post Dec 2 2019, 10:07 PM
Post #31


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 8,753
Joined: 12-September 04
From: Life Elevated..planet UT.
Member No.: 2,744
Region Association: Rocky Mountains



QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 09:05 PM) *

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Dec 2 2019, 11:04 PM) *


I have 12 BFD


That is a lot! No wonder you know so much, take pity on those with far fewer and are still learning perhaps?

It takes Focus..you will go crazy.....
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
cali914
post Dec 3 2019, 01:25 AM
Post #32


cali914
**

Group: Members
Posts: 258
Joined: 26-April 06
From: Berkeley Ca.
Member No.: 5,934
Region Association: Northern California



Kents set up is as close as you are going to get with comfortability for 500 miles in a 914. subaru engine with subaru trans and air conditioning. The only other thing that comes close is buy a boxster, a modern day 914.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
a9146luvr
post Dec 3 2019, 02:34 AM
Post #33


Newbie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 47
Joined: 2-January 04
Member No.: 1,495
Region Association: None



"civilized?", not possible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif) hopefully! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Dec 3 2019, 06:06 AM
Post #34


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,059
Joined: 25-August 18
From: The Motor City
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 2 2019, 09:46 PM) *

Great discussion gentlemen, appreciate all the thoughts and responses.

I think I need to starting focusing more on NVH, as suggested.


@Superhawk996 - yeah yeah yeah, I know, I know. I have naked Goldwing that eats that sort of mileage for breakfast but the /6 needs to be something my significant other can comfortably drive.


Appreciate ALL the thoughts and experiences and thoughts.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) My 914 came about due to wife's lack of interest in riding on the back of motorcycles any more. She missed the weekend drives in the Miata and suggested I buy a 914 again.

The other key ingredient for comfortable 500 mile days may be A/C & heat depending on your environment.

You are wise to focus on NVH. Often ignored. Lots of studies show NVH is critical to driver comfort & customer satisfaction. In some cases like low freqency drone or high frequency whistle, the driver may not even be consciously aware, but when the stimulus is removed, they then feel much better about the car.

NVH ideas:
Cloth seat coverings - the will absorb noise and the allow more comfort / breathability than vinyl or leather. Even if you kept bolsters vinyl but added cloth center cushions it will help significantly.

Back & door panel pad covering - cloth or Alcantera (faux suede) like materials - can be mixed with leather / vinyl if original appearance isn't importnat to you. You'd be surprised how much louder leather interiors are vs. cloth. Most modern cars are a strategic mix of materials.

Put something soft / foamy / fuzzy on the underside of the targa top. That is basically a big resonator and a sound reflector. Actually Dyna mat on the underside and then covered with something that looks nice would be useful to damp NVH.

Use shoddy under the carpet in addition to sound treatment like constrained layer damping material (Dynamat) this is usually more effective than the tar mats.

If you can tolerate a center console or storage bin, it will help break up some potential cabin resonances that come with an "open box" cabin.

Use Dynamat on other panels like door outer & the front dash that otherwise have no treatment.

Seal all pass through holes with proper grommets & seals. Put a patch of Dynamat over any random screw holes. Air leakage = Noise transfer path

Door seals - make sure your door seals are actually sealing to the body.

You get the idea.

Here's a starter for you:

http://lightweightingworld.com/noise-vibra...lightweighting/
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Steve
post Dec 3 2019, 08:10 AM
Post #35


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,859
Joined: 14-June 03
From: Orange County, CA
Member No.: 822
Region Association: Southern California



QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Dec 2 2019, 01:53 PM) *

Civilized 914 3.2? I like your thinking—it's different, and cool.

My recipe would be:

1975 914 1.8 or 2.0 w/big bumpers and all the updates
3.2 w/Motronic
915/916 gearbox
Keep 914-4 sound-deadening
Consider double-pane rear window
Ben's heater boxes + quiet muffler
Mild suspension with Koni reds
PMB or 986 brakes
16x6-inch Fuchs w/205/55R16 Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 3 tires
Air-conditioning (electric? as used by Emory Motorsports)
Rear oil cooler or custom loop coolers to both front fenders
Stock seats with grippy cloth
Power windows that use the stock window winders as "switches"
930/Carrera-style carpeting of some sort

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
This is pretty much my build minus the electric stuff, double rear window and big bumpers. Bens heat exchangers give awesome heat for cold mornings and the quiet muffler makes conversations easy in the cabin and make the drive more relaxing. My Martin Bott 916 1986 transmission gearing matches my 3.2 euro 3.2 motor and makes driving much more relaxing. 1st gear is actually useable and you shift less often. The steve Wong chip really opens up the 3.2 motor and makes the motor more smoother. Next on my list is electric AC. I have all the parts, but no time to install it.
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Racer
post Dec 3 2019, 08:41 AM
Post #36


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 599
Joined: 25-August 03
From: Northern Virginia
Member No.: 1,073
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region



My long 914 drives (1.7, 2.0, 2056, 2.0/6) have all been great. They were all when i was young too.

My complaints when young were (with the 6)... droning. Ran a sport muffler. Droning.

Wind noise. Without AC, the need to run with windows open / top off / combos there of, lead to a lot of wind noise.

Road noise.. not from my car, but from the cars around me. Tire noise. Engine noise. Truck noise. Horns. There is a lot of noise.. Most of the time, in your modern DD, you don't notice it.. cause windows are closed, AC/heat is on and radio/music is playing.

But 500 miles / 5-6-8 hours on the freeway I now find this fatiguing. I get out of the car with a ringing in my ears.

The easy answer is - Get a Boxster/Cayman (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But SoCal is not the rest of america. Maybe these aren't your concerns.

Seats - get some more comfortable seats.. Add the sound deadening (but not too much, since that 3.2 sounds great right behind you (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 3 2019, 08:45 AM
Post #37


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



Thanks for all the constructive input.

So, with all the feedback, a couple planning points.

-going to leave the Motronic on (already decided that but worth repeating for clarity)
-will use the Dr Evil clinic rebuilt gearbox (that was a fun event, we should do another soon)
-will put the interior sound insulation back in (PO removed it)
-will make sure there is the sound pad (or modern equivalent) in the engine compartment
-will use rubber rather than hard mounts for engine and transmission mounts
-door and top seals etc will all be fresh
-going to use Ben's HEs
-have a Triad quiet muffler I picked up from a fellow member here that I will give a try (to @mepstein 's point I can always swap it out)
-existing suspension and braking is just fine and comfortable
-she will go back to being green, which doesn't really impact how she will drive but I hear all the cool kids like Zambezi)

@sixnotfour I do understand your point (and it is a good one). I've gotten used to juggling multiple builds and built the GTV and FJ40 while putting the '73 1.7 BAT car into regular use so "just" focusing on the 914s will feel like a but of a luxury, but I freely admit this is NOT the way to do it.

I need to wrap up the '74 metal work and get one of the refreshed 2.0L in so I can move it along to finish funding this, but this sort of dialog is VERY much appreciated[u].
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Steve
post Dec 3 2019, 09:58 AM
Post #38


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,859
Joined: 14-June 03
From: Orange County, CA
Member No.: 822
Region Association: Southern California



The triad is nice, but it does have an evil drone around 2800 rpms. It’s also not as quiet as bens muffler. The triad is noticeably louder in the cockpit.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 3 2019, 10:18 AM
Post #39


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,754
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



QUOTE(Steve @ Dec 3 2019, 10:58 AM) *

The triad is nice, but it does have an evil drone around 2800 rpms. It’s also not as quiet as bens muffler. The triad is noticeably louder in the cockpit.


Thanks @Steve
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
cali914
post Dec 4 2019, 08:42 AM
Post #40


cali914
**

Group: Members
Posts: 258
Joined: 26-April 06
From: Berkeley Ca.
Member No.: 5,934
Region Association: Northern California



QUOTE(Steve @ Dec 3 2019, 06:10 AM) *

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Dec 2 2019, 01:53 PM) *

Civilized 914 3.2? I like your thinking—it's different, and cool.

My recipe would be:

1975 914 1.8 or 2.0 w/big bumpers and all the updates
3.2 w/Motronic
915/916 gearbox
Keep 914-4 sound-deadening
Consider double-pane rear window
Ben's heater boxes + quiet muffler
Mild suspension with Koni reds
PMB or 986 brakes
16x6-inch Fuchs w/205/55R16 Michelin Pilot Sport All-Season 3 tires
Air-conditioning (electric? as used by Emory Motorsports)
Rear oil cooler or custom loop coolers to both front fenders
Stock seats with grippy cloth
Power windows that use the stock window winders as "switches"
930/Carrera-style carpeting of some sort

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
This is pretty much my build minus the electric stuff, double rear window and big bumpers. Bens heat exchangers give awesome heat for cold mornings and the quiet muffler makes conversations easy in the cabin and make the drive more relaxing. My Martin Bott 916 1986 transmission gearing matches my 3.2 euro 3.2 motor and makes driving much more relaxing. 1st gear is actually useable and you shift less often. The steve Wong chip really opens up the 3.2 motor and makes the motor more smoother. Next on my list is electric AC. I have all the parts, but no time to install it.
Attached Image

The combination of the color and your rims makes your car look really sexy.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

3 Pages V < 1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 8th December 2019 - 10:04 AM