Home  |  Forums  |  914 Info  |  Blogs
 
914World.com - The fastest growing online 914 community!
 
Porsche, and the Porsche crest are registered trademarks of Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG. This site is not affiliated with Porsche in any way.
Its only purpose is to provide an online forum for car enthusiasts. All other trademarks are property of their respective owners.
 

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V < 1 2  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> touring power, build an engine !!!!
914forme
post Dec 9 2019, 08:41 AM
Post #21


Times a wastin', get wrenchin'!
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,896
Joined: 24-July 04
From: Dayton, Ohio
Member No.: 2,388
Region Association: None



Have you checked into Original Customs engine program.

@McMark has dyno plots on his site for the two units. 1911 is a bit below 100HP, the 2056 is closer to 125hp.

That 2056 would make a huge difference, and I doubt that you can source the quality parts being used, and the level of service.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
mepstein
post Dec 9 2019, 09:32 AM
Post #22


914-6 GT in waiting
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 19,142
Joined: 19-September 09
From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE
Member No.: 10,825
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region



QUOTE(914forme @ Dec 9 2019, 09:41 AM) *

Have you checked into Original Customs engine program.

@McMark has dyno plots on his site for the two units. 1911 is a bit below 100HP, the 2056 is closer to 125hp.

That 2056 would make a huge difference, and I doubt that you can source the quality parts being used, and the level of service.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I think it’s worth the money to buy into a proven system vs spending the time and money to R & D your own.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rhodyguy
post Dec 9 2019, 09:56 AM
Post #23


Chimp Sanctuary NW. Check it out.
***************

Group: Members
Posts: 22,042
Joined: 2-March 03
From: Orion's Bell. The BELL!
Member No.: 378
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



Doing it right, chances are you will need machine work on what ever case you decide to use. The galley plugs, align bore and decking the case. It adds up.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Superhawk996
post Dec 9 2019, 06:13 PM
Post #24


914 Guru
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 5,673
Joined: 25-August 18
From: Woods of N. Idaho
Member No.: 22,428
Region Association: Galt's Gulch



QUOTE(Tdskip @ Dec 9 2019, 08:16 AM) *

@Superhawk996 - thanks for the response but I wasn’t very clear. Is your take away not to build from a 1.7 and start from a 2.0L case and crank instead? Make sure to use modified 1.8 or 2.9L heads?


@Tdskip

In my original build case, I feel that the 1.7L heads were the limiting factor. I would have loved to go to 2.0L heads or bigger valves but it just wasn't in my budget at the time so I made do with what I had just to get back on the road.

Remember, this was 1989, I was living in northern Michigan, and a 914 in that area was about as rare as could be. I had no access to easy parts and I had to work with what little my local machine shop could do which was cut the heads, a 3 angle valve job and to simply regrind my pitted valve ends. Guys in CA would have been swimming in parts.

I think most of this build advice has been well hashed out by the Legend himself. Nothing special about a 2.0L case.

http://914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t141448.html
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 10 2019, 09:46 AM
Post #25


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,674
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



@superhawk996 - thanks for following up and good info for people making decisions like the OP.

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
VaccaRabite
post Dec 10 2019, 10:32 AM
Post #26


En Garde!
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 13,407
Joined: 15-December 03
From: Dallastown, PA
Member No.: 1,435
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region



When I did my motor (2056) it started as a 1.7L case and 1.7L heads, a 2.0 crank, Stock Mahle 2.0 cylinders that I had punched out to 96mm, KB flattop 96mm pistons. At the time, that was the proven recipe.

The case needed to have the registers opened up a little, and needed to have the registers flattened out (the case was a bus case, and the registers had started collapsing...) The heads needed significant work to flow the air I was sucking and pushing. I did not change spark locations.

When I built the engine the first time built did not last long. I flat out did not know what the hell I was doing and did a lot of stuff wrong. It ran way too hot and did not make enough oil pressure. Learn by doing I suppose. I tore the engine down before it did that part for me, and was able to reuse a lot of my parts.

When I rebuilt it I added a LOT of valve train goodies, and lowered my static CR from 9.2:1 to 8.7:1, spent a lot of time on my oiling system blueprinting the pump and adding an oil cooler under the rear trunk, and went from carbs to $Microsquirt$.

I'm still in the proving stage of my current engine, and have only taken it on runs about 2 hours long and within the radius of my AAA towing range. That said, I have yet to see a head temp above 360 - even when climbing long Appalachian hills in 5th gear at 80+mph. It just eats it up! It has maybe 2000 miles this summer (Odo on my car has never worked) and has worked really well in various conditions (including a 50 mile run in pouring rain that cropped up one day). My car as a whole has issues (mostly electrical in nature - I think the wipers are pulling WAY too much current when I have to use them) but the engine has run very very well.

My engine is also pushing 150hp at the crank, dyno proven. (127 at the wheels during initial tuning). That is well above average for a 2056 (the standard for a 2056 is 120 at the crank, and I'm making more then that at the wheels).

As to money... I bought the engine as a "running" 2056 for $2K. This engine was supposed to be a drop in my car and go deal. Yeah no... Had to totally rebuild it, but it had great parts. Ceramic lifters? Yes please!

Then (as I said) rebuilt it again a year later learning from my rookie mistakes. Lots of head work. $2K in heads alone from a local guy. $3K for the Microsquirt setup. $2K in tuning. Oh, and the actual parts I had to buy, lets call that $2K. So lets call it $11K (including tuning and all the other stuff - not just the engine) for a good 150hp T4 small bore engine that I never have to rev above 5K. The upside is that I spent this money in little chunks over several years and even got to drive the car a little between chunks as the engine evolved - but still.

If I was doing it again.... First off I'd buy NEW heads from Len. Its frustrating but I KNOW I'm leaving power on the table with my heads. And I know his heads will run longer then my old ones will. At the time I could not afford his work, and I HATED knowing that I was going to be running a compromise instead of the best heads I could get.

And if I was starting from scratch - I'd be looking long and hard at a subaru conversion OR make a stock engine with stock EFI and spend the money needed to get it right (which will still be $5K+ easy, with roughly 1/2 the power).

My engine has been a journey, and I've spent more time and money on the engine then I did restoring the entire rest of the car.

Zach
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 10 2019, 10:36 AM
Post #27


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,674
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



Super helpful post Zach
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bleyseng
post Dec 10 2019, 04:13 PM
Post #28


Aircooled Baby!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 13,034
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Seattle, Washington (for now)
Member No.: 24
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



Sorry, there is no waay I’d a Subie in 914. Just hot thru rebuilding and installing a 2.5l in my son’s Synchro vanagon and its really nice but but not in a 914 come on!
Len’s heads are the way to go for sure and its easy to get 120-130hp in a 2056 . Mine revs to 6500 rpms easy cruises all day at 100 mph.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
orangecrate
post Dec 10 2019, 08:48 PM
Post #29


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 152
Joined: 16-September 13
From: Apache Junction AZ
Member No.: 16,394
Region Association: Southwest Region



What are y'all's thoughts on a 1911 ?? I was lookin on Original Customs website. Turns out I guess I am cheap. I have a running 1.7 and like the idea of recycling parts. I also found a stock rebuilt 1.7 that has been align bored, pistons and rods balanced heads rebuilt Machine work done by Competition Eng. here in Phoenix and assembled by a seasoned VW tech for $1800. 0 miles. But I'm not sure I would be happy with the performance. Although it would be really nice to get the damn thing on the road again.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 10 2019, 09:14 PM
Post #30


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,674
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



QUOTE(orangecrate @ Dec 10 2019, 09:48 PM) *

What are y'all's thoughts on a 1911 ?? I was lookin on Original Customs website. Turns out I guess I am cheap. I have a running 1.7 and like the idea of recycling parts. I also found a stock rebuilt 1.7 that has been align bored, pistons and rods balanced heads rebuilt Machine work done by Competition Eng. here in Phoenix and assembled by a seasoned VW tech for $1800. 0 miles. But I'm not sure I would be happy with the performance. Although it would be really nice to get the damn thing on the road again.


More so than most cars, a Porsche will consume all available money and then some if you let it. That is especially true if you chase additional performance above factory levels. Is that worth doing – that’s a highly personal decision.

I would offer up that I have a couple of these things and the one I find myself driving the most is actually a 1.7 L car with the factory fuel injection. It is not the fastest but it’s a sweet engine in an unmolested in honest Car that is well behaved and will still do everything I ask of it. Keep in mind that a 2 L won’t make the car stop, turn, handle transitions, write better or any of that stuff.


There’s something to be said for being able to work a car at speeds that won’t get you arrested.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bleyseng
post Dec 11 2019, 12:57 PM
Post #31


Aircooled Baby!
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 13,034
Joined: 27-December 02
From: Seattle, Washington (for now)
Member No.: 24
Region Association: Pacific Northwest



Its going cost about the same to build a stock 1.7 vs a 2.0L. A Raby cammed 2056 is alittle more
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
michael7810
post Dec 12 2019, 09:20 AM
Post #32


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,078
Joined: 6-June 11
From: Scottsdale, AZ
Member No.: 13,164
Region Association: Southwest Region



QUOTE(orangecrate @ Dec 10 2019, 07:48 PM) *

What are y'all's thoughts on a 1911 ?? I was lookin on Original Customs website. Turns out I guess I am cheap. I have a running 1.7 and like the idea of recycling parts. I also found a stock rebuilt 1.7 that has been align bored, pistons and rods balanced heads rebuilt Machine work done by Competition Eng. here in Phoenix and assembled by a seasoned VW tech for $1800. 0 miles. But I'm not sure I would be happy with the performance. Although it would be really nice to get the damn thing on the road again.

That 1911 you looked at is pretty much what I have including machine work by CE. I’ve put 30K miles on it including several trips thru Colorado mountains and a 4K drive to Georgia for Okteenerfest. I’m very happy with the performance. I have waaaaay more than $1800 in my engine. Your welcome to drive my car sometime to see how it runs. I’m in South Scottsdale.
User is online!Profile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
VaccaRabite
post Dec 12 2019, 11:36 AM
Post #33


En Garde!
**********

Group: Admin
Posts: 13,407
Joined: 15-December 03
From: Dallastown, PA
Member No.: 1,435
Region Association: MidAtlantic Region



1911 can be a great engine making similar power to a 2056, slightly more peaky torque curve, slightly more rev happy.

If your bottom end is in great shape, you will still spend a lot of money on heads. And if you want power from non-stock EFI or carbs you will need a different cam (which means splitting the case).

On any engine you build, your biggest ticket item will be the heads. Buy the best you can afford. Don't go budget here. I'd be very wary of an $1800 1911 (I learned that lesson the hard way) as you can't buy the parts for that price, let alone the cost of building it. So you have to ask - what corners got cut (and if the case was align bored, lots of corners had to get cut to make selling at that price possible - unless the guy is taking a loss on the motor just to get it out of his shop.)

Stock or not, you will have a hard time getting a reliable new engine for under $5K. Sure, its possible, but not likely. Not any more.

Not much sucks more then buying a performance motor for ~$2K, and finding out you probably have to rebuild the whole thing after 15 minutes of run time and a sad compression test. My experience only, YMMV.

Zach
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
ctc911ctc
post Dec 12 2019, 11:42 AM
Post #34


Senior Member
***

Group: Members
Posts: 885
Joined: 9-June 18
From: boston
Member No.: 22,206
Region Association: North East States



QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Dec 7 2019, 02:44 PM) *

First is it knocking? Many newbies mistake a "knocking sound" from the normal sounds an aircooled engine makes, especially at idle. If the "knocking sound" disappears as soon as you apply power and never gets louder then you just may not be used to the sounds an AC engine makes. If it truly is knocking then you should be still able to hear it as you drive and the noise should be getting progressively a lot louder as time goes by.

As far as power and/or a rebuild goes you need give us a budget range, because one man's version of cheap is another's man's damn expensive, just saying "cheap" tells us nothing. For example you say a Raby engine is too expensive, but if you DIY that's almost half the cost, so a $8-10K budget which some may consider "cheap". Flip side of that is you have totally unrealistic budget, a case of beer isn't going to cut it.

Are you using the 1.7 stock Djet FI induction or carbs? What exhaust?
What you have? Just the engine in the car? Do you have any spares? A lot of owners have spare core engines, etc., that we can use towards a project.

You need to give us some more info.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Even though I have owned 5 of these, I am always thrown by the tapping!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
orangecrate
post Dec 28 2019, 06:45 PM
Post #35


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 152
Joined: 16-September 13
From: Apache Junction AZ
Member No.: 16,394
Region Association: Southwest Region



QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Dec 12 2019, 09:36 AM) *

1911 can be a great engine making similar power to a 2056, slightly more peaky torque curve, slightly more rev happy.

If your bottom end is in great shape, you will still spend a lot of money on heads. And if you want power from non-stock EFI or carbs you will need a different cam (which means splitting the case).

On any engine you build, your biggest ticket item will be the heads. Buy the best you can afford. Don't go budget here. I'd be very wary of an $1800 1911 (I learned that lesson the hard way) as you can't buy the parts for that price, let alone the cost of building it. So you have to ask - what corners got cut (and if the case was align bored, lots of corners had to get cut to make selling at that price possible - unless the guy is taking a loss on the motor just to get it out of his shop.)

Stock or not, you will have a hard time getting a reliable new engine for under $5K. Sure, its possible, but not likely. Not any more.

Not much sucks more then buying a performance motor for ~$2K, and finding out you probably have to rebuild the whole thing after 15 minutes of run time and a sad compression test. My experience only, YMMV.

Zach

Yea . I decided I just want to get it running under it's own power. Which its doing now. But there is a knock. You can here it after she warms up . Rev it up good after its warmed up and it's down there under all the other clatter when you back off. So I bought the $1800 engine. It's a 1.7 not a performance motor. An $1800 gamble. We'll see how it turns out.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Tdskip
post Dec 28 2019, 08:16 PM
Post #36


Advanced Member
****

Group: Members
Posts: 3,674
Joined: 1-December 17
From: soCal
Member No.: 21,666
Region Association: None



Good luck and please keep us posted
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
MM1
post Nov 2 2020, 06:07 PM
Post #37


914 obsession continues
***

Group: Members
Posts: 608
Joined: 9-May 18
From: Thousand Oaks, CA
Member No.: 22,105
Region Association: Southern California



Did you ever get that stock 1.7 running?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
rbzymek
post Nov 2 2020, 07:45 PM
Post #38


Member
**

Group: Members
Posts: 195
Joined: 5-April 19
From: Northville, MI
Member No.: 23,013
Region Association: Upper MidWest



So when my 1975 1.8L overheated and failed with low compression I was looking for a way out to get back on the road fairly quickly. I settled on a SCAT 2056 long block with a WEB 73 cam, 42x38 heads and 8.5 CR. The plugs are in the 1.8L position but that allowed me to re-use my engine tin. The car has been a joy to drive especially after I added a Derale oil cooler. The temperature gauge stays way on the left side of the safe zone.

I have SSHE's and a Triad muffler so it's probably around 120 HP. My objective was a reliable car and I probably have 3000 miles on it since the conversion with no drama. The L-Jet works great as I was able to tune it with the AFR meter I had installed on the Triad.

I know there are more exotic ways to get to a 2056. I get it, but it would have been my first engine build with a good chance of getting it wrong. (Or I could have spent another $4000 for all the trimmings.) I still have the 1.8L core in case I want to go back to stock.

The best part was that the long block only set me back $4670 plus $320 shipping to Michigan.



Attached image(s)
Attached Image
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



- Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 29th March 2024 - 08:56 AM