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> Door stay kit
mepstein
post Dec 7 2019, 09:58 PM
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Help me understand. The door stay kit I’m using comes with a pin but it’s too big for the hole. I could make the hole bigger but there’s still no groove for a clip. Stock pin on right
?

@Mikey914


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Krieger
post Dec 8 2019, 12:07 AM
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Iirc the pins were made oversized because the monting holes on the bodies on some cars have ovaled due to wear. Also my memory says that the designer/pilot felt no clips were necessary unless the car was inverted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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mb911
post Dec 8 2019, 05:48 AM
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That explains why they fit so tight for me and ended up chipping fresh paint to install..
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roblav1
post Dec 8 2019, 07:18 AM
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Turn 'em on a lathe!
On mine, which I just installed last week, the plastic or nylon rollers were cracked. Bronze rollers from a hardware store pulley worked great. Cut off the sheave and drilled the holes to the right size.
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mepstein
post Dec 8 2019, 07:47 AM
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QUOTE(Krieger @ Dec 8 2019, 01:07 AM) *

Iirc the pins were made oversized because the monting holes on the bodies on some cars have ovaled due to wear. Also my memory says that the designer/pilot felt no clips were necessary unless the car was inverted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

But if the mounting holes on my car are not ovaled ....

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FlacaProductions
post Dec 8 2019, 08:42 AM
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Check here (specifically posts 14 and 16):
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...=216738&hl=

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Mikey914
post Dec 9 2019, 02:00 AM
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We initially made them to the OEM size. The complaint was they "clicked" when the doors opened and closed. Problem was that not everyone had the problem. So we made them slightly larger to eliminate the problem. They can be easily filed down to get a get a custom fit for your car.

It's the only way to get a perfect fit.

By the way the steering rack rebuild service we do has a similar issue. The shafts often are darkened with oxidation and pitting. We actually make our bushings with a smaller diameter and hone each one for a perfect fit (after we polish the shaft).

The idea is that the tolerance will be back to if not tighter than the factory, but the process was difficult enough that we don't sell the bushings stand alone as the process of educating and with different levels of capabilities we would have a more difficult time selling just the parts.

The parallel is that there are varying levels of degradation in the mount holes. Fortunately this is a pretty simple application.

Gravity makes the clip redundant, they are difficult enough to remove when you are trying.
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914forme
post Dec 9 2019, 04:40 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) So my plans to be buried in space in my 914-6 are out then. Just one more complicated issue, to keep me from being payload in a Virgin Galactic flight. Floating pins = space junk, just waiting to take out some billions of dollars communication satellite, that then will fall on my estate to cover bringing grief to my family, destroying what is left of my Finical empire. All $9.14 cents of it.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif)

Lots of ways to solve the issue Mark, maybe a piece of paper with words on it describing why the pin is oversized and that gravity here on planet earth, makes the clip redundant. Maybe that would have saved a few people paint, or at least gave them understanding.

Thank you for the clarification btw, it does help. You (914Rubber) just like all our vendors are trying to fill a need for the community. Filling that need and providing great service is what pays the bills, but as you have most likely learned 10000000000s of times over, you can not make one decision with out it effecting other items. It is all about the combo as Jake Raby would say.
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Mikey914
post Dec 9 2019, 10:29 AM
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Yes we are trying to be a little more clear for our customers and sometimes it's been hard to wear all the hats. I do have a little more help now too.

And buy the way the relative gravity of the 2 masses may work for 0 G so possible that you would be ok. I don't think you will be getting out more than once.
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mepstein
post Dec 9 2019, 10:50 AM
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I appreciate that 914rubber is making the parts. It would be good to know they differ from stock and the reason behind it, what mods or fitting might be needed.
For example, if I just purchased the aluminum lever but not the kit, the hole would be too big for a stock pin and be useless without the larger aftermarket pin.
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raynekat
post Dec 10 2019, 01:43 AM
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So if I have to file the pin smaller to fit the hole on the car....then the pin will be too loose in the new aluminum lever.

I fail to see how this helps and is my exact situation.

It would be better if the lever had no holes so you could drill the exact size you need.

I'm so confused on this part. And I've spent some time for sure trying to get it to fit.

I'm down to trying to ream the hole out in the chassis receiver just slightly so the oversize pin fits.
And then drill my own hole in the pin to accept a cotter pin just like the factory did.
Not sure I'll go that route...

Instead, I may fab my own aluminum lever with better curvature that rides the wheels better.
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bbrock
post Dec 10 2019, 08:37 AM
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I happened to glance at the door stay on my Nissan yesterday and noticed they used a split roll pin instead of a clevis. Made me wonder if that might not be a good solution to compensating for wear and variation in hole size.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif)
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BeatNavy
post Dec 10 2019, 08:52 AM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Dec 9 2019, 11:50 AM) *

I appreciate that 914rubber is making the parts. It would be good to know they differ from stock and the reason behind it, what mods or fitting might be needed.
For example, if I just purchased the aluminum lever but not the kit, the hole would be too big for a stock pin and be useless without the larger aftermarket pin.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) If I had a constructive criticism for 914Rubber it would be: provide better and more consistent install documentation. For example, many of the seals require some trimming to fit. Even if there was a basic instruction included that said "Trim to fit" that would give you more confidence before you start slicing into the brand new part you just purchased.

To be fair, Mark / Matty have done some excellent install threads here and posted some well done videos on the more complex stuff. Sometimes its the simple stuff that needs more explanation. On related note, I guess we (the customers) need to do a better job reviewing products on their website and submitting feedback to 914Rubber and to help others. I admit I've never done that, so that's on me.

All good (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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raynekat
post Dec 10 2019, 11:18 AM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Dec 9 2019, 12:00 AM) *
So we made them slightly larger to eliminate the problem. They can be easily filed down to get a get a custom fit for your car.



Mark of 914Rubber.

The only problem with this is that if you file the pins a bit smaller, then they are too small for your lever arms. You'll get clicking there just as well. Pins might fit tight in the chassis receivers, but will will loose in your arms.
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Mikey914
post Dec 10 2019, 11:51 PM
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Forgot we did change the arms. So perhaps This next run we just go back to the stock configuration, and make a mount for body?
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Superhawk996
post Dec 11 2019, 06:06 AM
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Wow! Hard group to please on this topic.

Let's cut Mikey a little slack. It is hard to build parts for a new car and to take care of all the tolerancing stacks.

All OEM's use statistical software and CAD data to do it becuase just finding the worst case tolerance stacks (hole too big, pin too small) including variations in paint thickness, plating thickness, stamping variability, and pin diameter variability will gurantee that the pin is either too tight or too lose depending on which whay you do the stack analysis as best case, or worst case. The statistical software seeks to best fit the component tolerancing such that 99.99966% parts fit the first time. Note: that number still isn't perfection.

Trying to do the same for 45 year old cars with worn out parts. I wouldn't even want to try. The only way to perfection is to make your own parts to fit each car.

Retail is a tough gig.

Thanks Mikey915 for doing what you do!
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mepstein
post Dec 11 2019, 07:21 AM
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I think it would be helpful to print in the part description on the website when you are making a part that’s different from oem and why.
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ThePaintedMan
post Dec 11 2019, 07:43 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) They do one heck of a job trying to please so many.

I did like the suggestion that @bbrock made with the split-pin. I recall seeing the same thing used on many other cars.
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Mikey914
post Dec 11 2019, 07:50 AM
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Guys,
I do really appreciate the input. We made changes to our original exactly like stock design based on feedback. The information I'm getting is that we probably should not have made the changes.

We are actually looking at making an exact replica with the serrations, just like factory.
we are a few months away (like after summer), but yes sometimes we make changes that at the time seem to be an improvement.

The good news is that we do make the majority of the parts we sell, and can make the changes needed.

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mepstein
post Dec 11 2019, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Dec 11 2019, 08:50 AM) *

Guys,
I do really appreciate the input. We made changes to our original exactly like stock design based on feedback. The information I'm getting is that we probably should not have made the changes.

We are actually looking at making an exact replica with the serrations, just like factory.
we are a few months away (like after summer), but yes sometimes we make changes that at the time seem to be an improvement.

The good news is that we do make the majority of the parts we sell, and can make the changes needed.

Mark, Great. Thanks
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