 Has anyone ever made a 914/8 clone?, Or am I off my rocker? |
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| sixnotfour |
 Jan 17 2020, 08:38 AM
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#41
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914 Wizard  Group: Members Posts: 10,412 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains 
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Visual Clone, wolf coat on a sheep... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif) quad eyes
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| tomeric914 |
Jan 17 2020, 08:52 AM
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#42
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One Lap of America in a 914! Group: Members Posts: 1,259 Joined: 25-May 08 From: Syracuse, NY Member No.: 9,101 Region Association: North East States
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908 replica engine group buy anyone?
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| SirAndy |
Jan 17 2020, 11:33 AM
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#43
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,607 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
QUOTE(tomeric914 @ Jan 17 2020, 06:52 AM)  908 replica engine group buy anyone? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) |
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| Chi-town |
Jan 17 2020, 04:55 PM
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#44
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 850 Joined: 31-August 18 From: Disneyland Member No.: 22,446 Region Association: Southern California |
the easiest way is a billet block, custom extended crank and cams. Fab up an intake and exhaust and you're ready to go.
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| rick 918-S |
Jan 18 2020, 07:48 AM
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#45
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Hey nice rack! -Celette Group: Members Posts: 20,426 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Now in Superior WI Member No.: 43 Region Association: Northstar Region
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I really like that IO-720 but the price (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif)
You would still need to shorten the stroke to increase.the RPM range. Welding a Porsche case would be way cheaper. You could use the 720 crank throw positioning as the start to have a crank machined. Same with the cam lobe positioning. The case is the easy part. It's the crank and cam that pose the challenge. |
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| Mikey914 |
Jan 18 2020, 10:01 AM
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#46
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The rubber man Group: Members Posts: 12,639 Joined: 27-December 04 From: Hillsboro, OR Member No.: 3,348 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 17 2020, 05:58 AM) Best solution is 2 polo motors coupled.. Any GA lycoming is not a good solution.. Just designed around low rpm high TQ. What you all are missing is the motor as an aircraft engine is set up for low rpm. While the displacement is large for the pistons. The rpm is a function of crank rod and cam. The case makes no real difference it’s just that. Lubrication would have to be addressed also. But from a cost standpoint the T2 case will be cheaper, probably a better candidate. Still, as Andy said. Unless you make the 8 at least as close as you can to factory, why bother? |
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| GeorgeRud |
Jan 18 2020, 11:26 AM
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#47
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,725 Joined: 27-July 05 From: Chicagoland Member No.: 4,482 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Give Polo a call, maybe he wants a project to bookend with his beautiful motor!
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| DaveO90s4 |
Jan 18 2020, 04:37 PM
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#48
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Member Group: Members Posts: 149 Joined: 26-April 16 From: Australia Member No.: 19,935 Region Association: None |
Front 2/3rds of a Corvair case and rear 2/3rds of a Corvair case would make a flat fan c. 4 litre horizontally opposed 8 cylinder engine. Corvair cases are cheap c.f Porsche cases.
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 18 2020, 05:00 PM
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#49
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,416 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Jan 18 2020, 07:48 AM) I really like that IO-720 but the price (IMG:style_emoticons/default/yikes.gif) You would still need to shorten the stroke to increase.the RPM range. Welding a Porsche case would be way cheaper. You could use the 720 crank throw positioning as the start to have a crank machined. Same with the cam lobe positioning. The case is the easy part. It's the crank and cam that pose the challenge. Rick, I disagree.... the crank would be the easy part, just time consuming. Get a bunch of 911 cranks, and machine them into pieces that can be bolted together to make any firing order you want. I would use the late 908 firing order. The early one had problems with third order harmonics. The cases would be harder. You have to cut two cases and weld the two half cases together. You need to put little alignment sleeves in all the oil galleries to keep them aligned. And you have to use 3.0 SC cases or newer to make them. Welding magnesium cases frightens me. You also have to extend the cam carriers like you did for the case. Then, to make the cams, you get two pairs, of cams, cut up into pieces. Assemble and time the front lobes, then add the next one back, time it, and tack weld it. Do the same until each cylinder is timed, and the cam is tack welded. Pull it apart, then finish weld the cams, or send them off to be duplicated as a solid cam. Sounds easy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) |
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| mb911 |
Jan 18 2020, 05:02 PM
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#50
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 6,815 Joined: 2-January 09 From: Burlington wi Member No.: 9,892 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Jan 18 2020, 08:01 AM) QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 17 2020, 05:58 AM) Best solution is 2 polo motors coupled.. Any GA lycoming is not a good solution.. Just designed around low rpm high TQ. What you all are missing is the motor as an aircraft engine is set up for low rpm. While the displacement is large for the pistons. The rpm is a function of crank rod and cam. The case makes no real difference it’s just that. Lubrication would have to be addressed also. But from a cost standpoint the T2 case will be cheaper, probably a better candidate. Still, as Andy said. Unless you make the 8 at least as close as you can to factory, why bother? Totally get it. My former life as and aircraft engine rebuilder helped me to get a really good understanding of the limitations.. Your right on though.. |
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| 914forme |
Jan 18 2020, 07:08 PM
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#51
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts.
Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it. Again very doable, but my friends with serious money are not into 914s. And they would not drop a dime on this project. So you have to find a combination. Someone who loves 914s, and the 914-8 specifically, and the monetary means to pull this project off. Engineering and building wise, is the easiest part of the build. But @Mikey914 I am currently not happy with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I find that my spare time now has been spent figuring out how to do this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I don't need another project in my head right now. I have about 5 of them that have been designed and ready in my head. 914-6 restomod. 914 EG conversion. an AWD Karmann Ghia with Subaru Power. A Dual cab AWD Subaru power. A Willys Pickup with X-drive and a N54 swap. And now a 914-8 with a working 3.0L 8 cylinder, making about 400HP. This does not include all the machine tools, and workshop projects I have yet to build. But the one that is kicking me right now is transmission. So many choices beside 908 box. I should have stuck with building scale models, so much cheaper, and I could have all these cool car ideas that as of right now, I can not afford but a couple. |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 19 2020, 12:15 AM
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#52
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,416 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(914forme @ Jan 18 2020, 07:08 PM) None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts. Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it. Again very doable, but my friends with serious money are not into 914s. And they would not drop a dime on this project. So you have to find a combination. Someone who loves 914s, and the 914-8 specifically, and the monetary means to pull this project off. Engineering and building wise, is the easiest part of the build. But @Mikey914 I am currently not happy with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I find that my spare time now has been spent figuring out how to do this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I don't need another project in my head right now. I have about 5 of them that have been designed and ready in my head. 914-6 restomod. 914 EG conversion. an AWD Karmann Ghia with Subaru Power. A Dual cab AWD Subaru power. A Willys Pickup with X-drive and a N54 swap. And now a 914-8 with a working 3.0L 8 cylinder, making about 400HP. This does not include all the machine tools, and workshop projects I have yet to build. But the one that is kicking me right now is transmission. So many choices beside 908 box. I should have stuck with building scale models, so much cheaper, and I could have all these cool car ideas that as of right now, I can not afford but a couple. Let me add one to your list that has been in my head for a long time. A W12 VW Phaeton engine and Boxster/Cayman six speed transmission in a 914. The engine and trans share a common bolt pattern for the bell housing, the clutch parts from the Cayman should work. Maybe need a custom flywheel. Fitment should be no problem as engine is actually shorter than a 911 six cylinder. Put a Cayman rear suspension under it. Use a V-8 radiator kit. Aftermarket EFI. Then you can have a real 914-12. |
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| 73-914 |
Jan 19 2020, 06:40 AM
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#53
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 572 Joined: 24-April 10 From: Albany UpstateNY Member No.: 11,651 Region Association: None
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QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jan 19 2020, 01:15 AM) QUOTE(914forme @ Jan 18 2020, 07:08 PM) None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts. Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it. Again very doable, but my friends with serious money are not into 914s. And they would not drop a dime on this project. So you have to find a combination. Someone who loves 914s, and the 914-8 specifically, and the monetary means to pull this project off. Engineering and building wise, is the easiest part of the build. But @Mikey914 I am currently not happy with you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) I find that my spare time now has been spent figuring out how to do this. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) I don't need another project in my head right now. I have about 5 of them that have been designed and ready in my head. 914-6 restomod. 914 EG conversion. an AWD Karmann Ghia with Subaru Power. A Dual cab AWD Subaru power. A Willys Pickup with X-drive and a N54 swap. And now a 914-8 with a working 3.0L 8 cylinder, making about 400HP. This does not include all the machine tools, and workshop projects I have yet to build. But the one that is kicking me right now is transmission. So many choices beside 908 box. I should have stuck with building scale models, so much cheaper, and I could have all these cool car ideas that as of right now, I can not afford but a couple. Let me add one to your list that has been in my head for a long time. A W12 VW Phaeton engine and Boxster/Cayman six speed transmission in a 914. The engine and trans share a common bolt pattern for the bell housing, the clutch parts from the Cayman should work. Maybe need a custom flywheel. Fitment should be no problem as engine is actually shorter than a 911 six cylinder. Put a Cayman rear suspension under it. Use a V-8 radiator kit. Aftermarket EFI. Then you can have a real 914-12. I like it The W8 would be a good fit also |
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| Mark Henry |
Jan 19 2020, 07:44 AM
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#54
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
QUOTE(914forme @ Jan 18 2020, 08:08 PM) None of this is hard, not the case, not the crank, cams, cam towers, etc... It just takes serious $$$$ to do one off parts. Hell you could 3D print all this stuff in PLA and sand cast it. Ask Catorse how much he has into the tooling for new 3.6 cases. I think it's north of quarter mil. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif) Also ask him how "easy" it was to do. https://www.taorminaracingdesigns.com/produ...-6-engine-case/ (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/rennlist.com-419-1502636405.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/www.taorminaracingdesigns.com-26-1579442177.1.jpg) |
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| 914forme |
Jan 19 2020, 08:08 AM
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#55
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Easy, and he is building for a market. This would be a one off.
Okay well if it goes like a 906 windshield, I will have to make 10 to get the one I need. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) The W12 - W8 engines are an interesting piece of engineering, never got to the point of wanting to swap them in anything. And I keep coming back to if I am building a 914 with all the comforts, and handling of a Cayman, then why not just build the Cayman. It is a really awesome chassis. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) W12 Cayman (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) |
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| ClayPerrine |
Jan 19 2020, 09:32 AM
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#56
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,416 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille
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QUOTE(914forme @ Jan 19 2020, 08:08 AM) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Easy, and he is building for a market. This would be a one off. Okay well if it goes like a 906 windshield, I will have to make 10 to get the one I need. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) The W12 - W8 engines are an interesting piece of engineering, never got to the point of wanting to swap them in anything. And I keep coming back to if I am building a 914 with all the comforts, and handling of a Cayman, then why not just build the Cayman. It is a really awesome chassis. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) W12 Cayman (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) The only reason the W-12 idea has not already been done is they are hard to find. Clay |
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| 914forme |
Jan 19 2020, 09:54 AM
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#57
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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| 914forme |
Jan 19 2020, 09:57 AM
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#58
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Times a wastin', get wrenchin'! Group: Members Posts: 3,896 Joined: 24-July 04 From: Dayton, Ohio Member No.: 2,388 Region Association: None
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| Detroit |
Jan 19 2020, 11:49 AM
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#59
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Member Group: Members Posts: 60 Joined: 28-December 16 From: Detroit metro area Member No.: 20,709 Region Association: Upper MidWest
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As someone who designs engines for a living, I'd have to say, "Yes, you are off your rocker." Unless, of course, money has no meaning to you.
That said, IF you have the ability to build the cast tooling yourself, it might not be a mortgage your house endeavor. And at that point you may even create a bit of a market for a '908 build kit' for guys considering -6 conversions or building 904 replicas... Because let's face it, why would you go through all the effort for a 911 soundtrack when you could listen to something closer to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eee2d9oknyM |
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| tomeric914 |
Jan 19 2020, 12:32 PM
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#60
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One Lap of America in a 914! Group: Members Posts: 1,259 Joined: 25-May 08 From: Syracuse, NY Member No.: 9,101 Region Association: North East States
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QUOTE(914forme @ Jan 19 2020, 09:08 AM) @914forme I'm not happy with you for that idea like you're not happy with @Mikey914 jerk (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
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