Camshaft guessing game, Let's play... Options

[groot]

I have no idea what camshaft this is, so I was hoping somebody could identify it for me.

I measured the lift to be between .283 and .289" at each lobe.

There's a ridge that goes 1/2 way around the cam just before the second bearing.

Here's a pic...

[groot]

Okay, here's the pic

[Jake Raby]

Stock....

[groot]

I figured as much. The new cam should help quite a bit....

Jake, I'm ready to place an order for bearings and such.

The crank is spot on, at least in diameter, it hasn't been ground, so I'll need to get the stock replacement bearings for it and the con rods.

Seeing as today is a holiday (go home and relax), I can call in the order tomorrow.

BTW... the Tilton clutch should be at your place on Wed.

[Dead Air]

QUOTE (Jake Raby @ Jul 4 2005, 01:55 PM)

Stock....

[QUOTE]

I have one of those, Too! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

But ours is all worn out (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif)

Ordella will be keeping her 2.0 L, Fuel injection and we'd like to use oversized pistons. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/unsure.gif)

Can anyone (else) assist in offering camshaft specs., replacement, or a reputable retailer? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

Thanks in advance (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif)

[Jake Raby]

The choice of camshaft is of utmost importance to the Type 4 engine.

This is why there are no descriptions on my store site (and because the copycatter was stealing them all) as i HAVE to help pick out the camshaft that you need based on your desires. i have 44 camshaft, while possibly 42 of thosemay install into your engine probably only 3 wiould give close to the performance, running temps and powerband you desire and only one is perfect.

When someone wants to keep stock FI and go to a larger bore the choice becomes very easy- I only have 3 that we know work (proven) and none of them are stockers, I don't sell a 100% stock cam.

Groot,
I'm here today working on your engines and Burdge's call me if you want and we'll go over the stuff you need for your freshening of the back up engine.

Days off are for pansies and holidays are an excuse to be lazy- I hate them!

[Allan]

I used these guys. Got the 6408 grind with lifters. Stock D-jet with euro P/C's. Slight lope at idle but pulls hard from 1500 - 6000 rpm.

[Brett W]

Kevin
Keep the lift reasonable and you can use the springs and retainers I sent you. The retainers are 7 grams lighter than the stock ones and the springs are significantly stiffer. They should work great with a 86a/86a+5 or maybe a...... Well Jake can probably direct you into something that would work with limited lift.

O by the way I am sending you some pushrod tube seals, valve cover gaskets and exhaust gaskets. Just some stuff from my stash.

By the way Elgin is old school and I wouldn't let them work on my lawnmower.

[Allan]

QUOTE (Brett W @ Jul 4 2005, 09:37 PM)

By the way Elgin is old school and I wouldn't let them work on my lawnmower.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) Why not? They did a great job for me and I know a couple other guys who have used them and have been pleased with their work...

[Jake Raby]

Elgin is an old school company, but Dema is a hell of a cam grinder..

I only use their cams in a couple of race engines but they can make some serious power.

[Brett W]

Dema is a hell of a cam grinder, he has been at it for many years, but he is not as involved as he used to be and I think things go down hill when he isn't looking over everyones shoulder. Ask Eric (thorshammer) why Elgin isn't as good as they used to be.

There are other cam companies out there that don't advertise that quietly do great work. They are expensive though.

[groot]

Thanks, Brett and Jake.

Brett, You shoudl be getting a letter in the mail. I sent it out on Friday. Thanks for the parts, it will help a lot.

[Thorshammer]

Over the past 20 years I have purchased 40-50 cams from Elgin. Now this pales in comparison to what others buy. I am sure Jake buys cams in the 100's. But for me, it's alot.

The broken camshaft I had, was clearly a defect in workmanship. My dyno cams(2 pairs) (also Elgin) lasted many hours on the dyno, while this one lasted less than an hour. Thanks Dema, No quarter given none expected.

One important thing everyone must know, Dmitry Elgin does not develop camshaft profiles. They are developed by Dave at Megacycle cams. Then Elgin pays for the cam master and the grinding begins. Then he replicates the cams as many times as possible.

Elgin may be an okay machinist, but a cam developer, he is not. Go to whomever you want to. If it works for you use it. If you have had success, use it. If your motor builder can make it work, Yes again, use it.

Heres how I based my decision to not use Elgin any longer. Piss poor customer service, threw my broken cam shaft out, and charged me full retail for the replacement. Thats Bullshit. He does not design his own cams. Lastly, the 911 cams spin in opposite directions, this causes the 1,2,3 bank to have different rocker arm geometry than the 4,5,6 cylinder does. This I have confirmed via cam doctor. The cam grinder I use now (Steve Gruenwald at Integral Cams) understands this difference and the cams are ground using 4 different programs (CNC) or 4 different masters. Elgin claims this makes no difference. I strongly disagree. This is why the left bank of cylinders runs cooler and acts as if it needs one step leaner main jets. After checking the carb settings repeatedly, even swapping the carbs left to right on the dyno, it still ran less than optimal on the left bank. Now I have the answer. My new cams are waiting to be installed and the dyno time will commence. This should confirm that Elgin does not have a clue. You would think with what I recently spent, he could buy himself a clue??

Erik Madsen

PS:

I knew a guy one time that did development work on type 1's. Everyone thought he was a whack, cause he had different grinds for making power, cam grinds for different engine combinations to keep them cool and, even different weight cars, he did alot of work. Kind of like what Jake is telling you guys. Oh, by the way, the guy that did type ones.... Gene Berg.

[ChrisFoley]

Kevin,
I'm really happy with the Web 86A in my backup engine.
I bet whetever Jake hooks you up with will be similar.
My domed pistons did need valve reliefs cut into them. Make sure you check your valve to piston clearances while you are putting it together.

I just checked out the SCCA Central Division standings and Kevin Groot is holding onto tenth place in E Production. It looks like a very competetive class in CENDIV with 24 drivers.
With an improved backup engine for the last two races you should be in good shape. I assume you're not going to RA.

BTW, what are you doing to upgrade the carbs to keep up with the rest of your improvements?

[Dead Air]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Erik,
I'd watch those Integral bikllets... They were some of the big issues we found with the TIV cam/lifter development and they haunted me for months and I never knew it... They were very porous and were promoting microwelding and accelerating lifter wear.... But that was the TIV versions.

The info on Elgin was very interesting- no doubt...

I have spoken to the same cam designer as Elgin has used and never even knew it. I didn't get very far with him though because his train of thought was back about 1968 and he still recommended cams with no taper and lifters that were the same.... Oh and spring tension that would sustain 12K revs!

[Thorshammer]

Yeah, Thats typical. 380 over the nose blah blah blah.

Dave is an odd duck. Sometimes he will do something, but my opinion is he only wants to work on stuff he can mass produce and the stuff is late model. I also agree some of these guys are just not up to date with lighter weight stuff, still thinking bigger is better more blah blah blah, I will check the Billets from Steve, thanks for the tip. I hope my experience will be different since I am running rocker arms. We'll see. I hope you took my compliment as intended. Berg did alot for type 1s, what your doing for type 4s is equally important.


Erik Madsen

[groot]

Chris,

I'm just barely holdin' on to 10th place. I'm hoping to squeak out some points at Grattan in Aug, because points will be hard to come by at the Aug M-O race. That DNF from 3rd place earlier this season is killing me.

Carbs... I've pieced together an entire jetting kit, which cost a few pennies, I might add. So, I'm starting with 36mm vents and 150 main gas jets with this new cam and I'll go from there. I'm pretty excited about getting this interim engine together, but even more excited about the real motor coming later (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/mueba.gif)

[Jake Raby]

Real motor is coming along... Just waitin' on Len and waitin for some valves that have been on back order.

No tilton goodies as of yet...

Parts for the current engine are on the way :-)

[groot]

If the Tilton stuff doesn't show today, let me know and I'll call Craig.