Irish Green '71 "Resto", Update: the 914 has been sold! Options

[mda123]

Glad to see she's alive and kicking. Been really enjoyable following your journey. I've made a little progress on mine, but I'm still on the (never-ending) search for rust before anything gets put back together.

[jaredmcginness]

Hey guys,

I havn't made an update in a bit. I've been insanely busy. Not much to update, but I figured I'd share some photos of the new digs.


Here is the last photo taken of my 914 at the old small garage.

(arguably the best angle of this car)


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.1.jpg)


Really lucky to have been able to find a place with a garage with just enough room to repair the 914. I will miss some things about it.... but its time for an upgrade.

Here is the backyard of the new house that we bought. My last "yard" was about 12 by 9 feet, so this is overwhelming.
With a detached 2.5 (deep) car garage (maybe 3 914s if you cram (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) and a separate gated entrance to the garage out back.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.3.jpg)

The garage is a recent build, and will need its share of work throughout the winter. It does not have dedicated electric.
So I will need to run a sub panel off the house, the floor absolutely needs some beefing up and a layer of epoxy, insulation, paint, etc.

I have my work cut out for me. BUT it is all there, I love it and I own it..


The 914 made it over! ... Barely ... It was only a mile, I ripped it the entire way, ear to ear smile (only my second time driving it - it is freezing temps here in MD).
Of COURSE, when I turn into the neighborhood it starts static idling at 3k rpm. Making a huge ruckus (sorry new neighbors!)

I coast most of the way down the block, fire it up and gun it into the garage.

Turns out the left carb linkage was stuck open at half throttle.... This is why we don't purchase the hex bar linkage folks!


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.4.jpg)

But we made it. Lord knows I was not paying for a tow several blocks, If i had to push the ***ing thing, I would. Too much pride!


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301166.5.jpg)


Here is a funny video of my feeble attempt to get it to it's new home:

Nice try, Jared

[tygaboy]

Nice! You're going to LOVE your new shop space! Just be careful: Nature abhors a vacuum and look at all that (currently) empty space... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

[Jamie]

Hey guys,

I havn't made an update in a bit. I've been insanely busy. Not much to update, but I figured I'd share some photos of the new digs.


Here is the last photo taken of my 914 at the old small garage.

(arguably the best angle of this car)


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.1.jpg)


Really lucky to have been able to find a place with a garage with just enough room to repair the 914. I will miss some things about it.... but its time for an upgrade.

Here is the backyard of the new house that we bought. My last "yard" was about 12 by 9 feet, so this is overwhelming.
With a detached 2.5 (deep) car garage (maybe 3 914s if you cram (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) and a separate gated entrance to the garage out back.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.3.jpg)

The garage is a recent build, and will need its share of work throughout the winter. It does not have dedicated electric.
So I will need to run a sub panel off the house, the floor absolutely needs some beefing up and a layer of epoxy, insulation, paint, etc.

I have my work cut out for me. BUT it is all there, I love it and I own it..


The 914 made it over! ... Barely ... It was only a mile, I ripped it the entire way, ear to ear smile (only my second time driving it - it is freezing temps here in MD).
Of COURSE, when I turn into the neighborhood it starts static idling at 3k rpm. Making a huge ruckus (sorry new neighbors!)

I coast most of the way down the block, fire it up and gun it into the garage.

Turns out the left carb linkage was stuck open at half throttle.... This is why we don't purchase the hex bar linkage folks!


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301165.4.jpg)

But we made it. Lord knows I was not paying for a tow several blocks, If i had to push the ***ing thing, I would. Too much pride!


(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/i.imgur.com-23209-1608301166.5.jpg)


Here is a funny video of my feeble attempt to get it to it's new home:

Nice try, Jared

It appears the shop has a plywood floor, so what is under the wood? I see some insulation on your shopping list by next Christmas, so enjoy the space.

[BeatNavy]

Nature abhors a vacuum and look at all that (currently) empty space... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif)

So true. My advice is to resist the urge to fill that space as long as you can while you're doing work on this car.

Nice place. Did you move out in the country or something?

[jaredmcginness]

It appears the shop has a plywood floor, so what is under the wood? I see some insulation on your shopping list by next Christmas, so enjoy the space.

It does! It was a prefab built in 2010... It's a gravel base, cemented piers, 12" spaced joints running the length, and 7/8 plywood floor.
It is really solid, but I was dissapointed to learn about the floor. The house was so perfect for us that it didnt matter.

So the work around is Epoxy. (I cannot afford a 9k concrete pour)

I need to clear the garage, add a vapor barrier, + another layer of 3/4" OSB, fill gaps, sand and epoxy.

Check out this you tube video

Here

I think is a good solution for me. I am NOT a contractor, if anyone has any better ideas for this I am all ears!

So true. My advice is to resist the urge to fill that space as long as you can while you're doing work on this car.

Nice place. Did you move out in the country or something?

Thanks for the advice @beatnavy . When I was moving, I could not believe how much stuff I was coming up with.
I set up several piles, give-away, sell, and five 30 gals of trash ( I dont need to keep all the rust sections I cut out of the car, haha)

I live in Catonsville, off 695. I moved about a mile down the road, near UMBC.
Its a corner lot in a quiet neighborhood and backs up against county property. So its super quiet.
Lucky to have found this house. We put the offer in within 10 hours of it being listed on zillow.

P.S. In that case I'll stop looking for the first $500 Bay window bus shell I find, just to put there as yard art... because I have the room (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[jd74914]

It appears the shop has a plywood floor, so what is under the wood? I see some insulation on your shopping list by next Christmas, so enjoy the space.

It does! It was a prefab built in 2010... It's a gravel base, cemented piers, 12" spaced joints running the length, and 7/8 plywood floor.
It is really solid, but I was dissapointed to learn about the floor. The house was so perfect for us that it didnt matter.

So the work around is Epoxy. (I cannot afford a 9k concrete pour)

I need to clear the garage, add a vapor barrier, + another layer of 3/4" OSB, fill gaps, sand and epoxy.

More expensive, but tile would be neat over another 3/4" of subfloor. Relatively inexpensive if you get a clearance-type deal. Regardless of how you go, I'd probably go ply over OSB.


Congrats on the new house! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) One more thing to work on! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[mepstein]

It appears the shop has a plywood floor, so what is under the wood? I see some insulation on your shopping list by next Christmas, so enjoy the space.

It does! It was a prefab built in 2010... It's a gravel base, cemented piers, 12" spaced joints running the length, and 7/8 plywood floor.
It is really solid, but I was dissapointed to learn about the floor. The house was so perfect for us that it didnt matter.

So the work around is Epoxy. (I cannot afford a 9k concrete pour)

I need to clear the garage, add a vapor barrier, + another layer of 3/4" OSB, fill gaps, sand and epoxy.

More expensive, but tile would be neat over another 3/4" of subfloor. Relatively inexpensive if you get a clearance-type deal. Regardless of how you go, I'd probably go ply over OSB.


Congrats on the new house! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) One more thing to work on! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

concrete board and then tile?
or foam board and then more osb/plywood and make a homemade SIP.

[jaredmcginness]

concrete board and then tile?
or foam board and then more osb/plywood and make a homemade SIP.

Good idea @mepstein , So current set up, then add a couple 4x8 of concrete board (for vapor barrier + strength) and tile directly over?

SIP would be good for strength and insulation I suppose.

Again, I am totally new to this. I'd just like to make this floor last and be able to withstand fluids, foot traffic, welding, etc. and not spend several grand to do it.

[mepstein]

concrete board and then tile?
or foam board and then more osb/plywood and make a homemade SIP.

Good idea @mepstein , So current set up, then add a couple 4x8 of concrete board (for vapor barrier + strength) and tile directly over?

SIP would be good for strength and insulation I suppose.

Again, I am totally new to this. I'd just like to make this floor last and be able to withstand fluids, foot traffic, welding, etc. and not spend several grand to do it.

I'm just throwing out some ideas but I'm no engineer so I can't do more than that.
Post on garagejournal.com and someone with more experience will be able to help.
Right now I have a big blue tarp on mine because I cleaned the floor with a pressure washer but I don't have time to attend to it. Give yourself a chance to come up with a plan.
Congrats! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

If I can grab a truck I might buy some of the porcelain tile pictured. $0.50 per sq/ft is a good price and I need tile that won't show dirt.

[Jamie]

Any material placed over a wooden floor must also be flexible, because the wooden subfloor under load like a car will have some flexing. A rigid top floor material like tile will crack, causing a renovation job that could have been avoided by using a flexible top material, like more plywood or OSB. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

[bbrock]

Any material placed over a wooden floor must also be flexible, because the wooden subfloor under load like a car will have some flexing. A rigid top floor material like tile will crack, causing a renovation job that could have been avoided by using a flexible top material, like more plywood or OSB. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) You need to consider the weight of the cars. I've tiled floors over a normal solid sub-floor, over two layers of wood sub-floor, and over cement backer board over wood sub-floor and they all work find for foot traffic although I very much prefer cement backer board. For a garage floor that cars will park on, you need to either build up the floor to be rigid or stick with flexible materials throughout. I'll bet two layers of 3/4" sheet screwed and glued together with a layer of cement backer laid in thinset and screwed down would do the trick, but I'm not an engineer and it would add to cost and work.

If it were my garage, I'd also be wondering if there was insulation under the existing sub-floor and if not, how hard it would be to get some under there. Lifting the sub-floor to install rigid foam between the joists and vapor barrier over them and under the first layer of sub-floor sheet might not be a horrible job if the plate was screwed down and not glued, but you'd need to weigh the cost and benefit. An insulated floor makes a big difference in comfort and cost of heating.

Again, I'm not an engineer or contractor but have built a huge barn/garage and renovated our first house that were later inspected by a structural engineered who commended me on the top notch work.

[willieg]

Love the look of the shop. However, unless the joists and plywood are decay resistant/pressure treated, ultimately there will be wood rotting issues. Also, load supporting wood members should have adequate ventilation. That said, flexible vinyl tiles would be an option over the existing plywood floor. Cheap, easy to install.

[jaredmcginness]

Again, I'm not an engineer or contractor but have built a huge barn/garage and renovated our first house that were later inspected by a structural engineered who commended me on the top notch work.

But that is much more experience than I! This is truly my first rodeo.
It doesn’t surprise me that someone else was giving you kudos for your first rate work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

I will need to make a price list of my options and weigh all that out.

I under stand the “do it right or do it twice” situation here. The issue I see is that this needs solved soon, while maybe temporary, building up a flexible floor, with a cement backer, and tile over that might be a good option now, that will get me through 3 or 4 years, when cement pouring might fit my budget down the road.

‘We do it nice BECAUSE we do it twice’ is my motto. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Love the look of the shop. However, unless the joists and plywood are decay resistant/pressure treated, ultimately there will be wood rotting issues. Also, load supporting wood members should have adequate ventilation. That said, flexible vinyl tiles would be an option over the existing plywood floor. Cheap, easy to install.

I agree. I was told this was pressure treasured, underneath, but I need to get in there for myself and see. I believe they are screwed down so I could pop a board up and see what I am working with.

Vinyl might be my move. I don’t think epoxy would be the best for flexibility. I see the coat cracking in time.

I made a thread on garage journal dot com. Maybe I will get some bites there as well.

[bbrock]

Here's another option for getting by. Just slap on a couple coats of cheap(ish) epoxy paint or glue down a cheap sheet of vinyl and call it good while you save some pennies for a proper slab. Back in the 90s I was able to buy 2K floor epoxy at Sherwin Williams for about $30/gallon that I used on the floors of an animal laboratory facility I was managing. Those floors were exposed to daily scrubbing with strong detergents and frequently exposed to acid and wore like iron. That was over concrete but I did paint some wood stuff with it and it worked well. It was pretty flexible. Cheap and durable. Note that this was not a pour on premium epoxy coating. Just a 2 part paint that rolled on like regular paint. RESPIRATOR REQUIRED.

[bkrantz]

Any material placed over a wooden floor must also be flexible, because the wooden subfloor under load like a car will have some flexing. A rigid top floor material like tile will crack, causing a renovation job that could have been avoided by using a flexible top material, like more plywood or OSB. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/screwy.gif)

I also agree. If you are thinking of replacing this with concrete some day, then I suggest two steps to use the floor you have until then:
1. Make sure the plywood floor is strong enough, especially for things like jacking. If you have doubts, add another layer of ply or OSB.
2. To protect the wood, at least in the work area, get a roll of utility flooring. These are not too expensive (around $250 to $300 for a 8 x 16 ft roll) and nearly indestructible.

[jaredmcginness]

Awesome. Thanks fellas. I got more info here than on Garage journal. I appreciate it getting brought up in the first place.


Last questions that I am a bit confused about.
-If I’m adding a 3/4” plywood layer now to strengthen what a I have, should I glue and screw to the existing layer?
-do I need a vapor barrier, if so what is a good choice, cement board, etc.

Options are:
-Vinyl tile (eg: Race deck) expensive, but adds; durability, attractive and strengthens.
-Roll out mat, cheaper, one solid layer, but thin.


Thanks!

[mepstein]

I think the vapor barrier needs to be on the ground or at least under the first layer of ply.
Glue and screw unless you plan on removing the 2nd layer at some time. Then just screw.

If you are buying plastic floor tiles new, look at what they sell at greg smith equipment. They are 5 minutes off 95 in Newark DE and no sales tax. They have samples and are sometimes cheaper in the store than online.

If I was doing tiles, I would still do an inexpensive epoxy on the wood. Otherwise, oil and chemicals will get between the seams of the tile. It's an aircooled Porsche so...

I looked at roll flooring and got a sample. It was very thin and scratched easy. By the time I ordered enough for my 22x24 garage, I was at $1K.

[bbrock]

Glue and screw (or nail) will make the stiffest floor but will a lot harder to demo later if you decide to do that. It doesn't really matter if you nail or screw if you glue the sheets together with construction adhesive. In that case, the nails or screws are really just clamping the sheets together while the adhesive dries.

I agree with Mark on the vapor barrier and would probably skip it. Instead, I'd make sure there is ventilation under the sub-floor. Foundation vents are cheap and easy to install. If you were to insulate the floor and keep the garage heated, then I would want a vapor barrier. Likewise if you ever pour a slab, you will want a vb between the ground and the slab.

I think it all just depends on how deep you want to go now and how temporary you intend the solution to be. I have a storage shed with an OSB floor on treated joists resting on a gravel pad. No insulation or vapor barrier but the shed is not heated so it doesn't matter. After 15 years it is still dry and solid.

[willieg]

Buildings, by code, typically specify 40 lb live load per square foot. This is more than adequate for walking and furniture. However, if you jack up one side of a 914, you are putting over1000 lbs on a very small area. Doubling up the plywood spreads out the load over a bigger area, which is a good thing. If you double the plywood, be sure to overlap the seams of the bottom plywood with the top plywood. I think a better solution would be to pull up a couple of pieces of the plywood floor and put additional support under the floor joists, where you anticipate the jacking points will be. If the floor was constructed properly, it would have been glued and screwed, meaning you will damage the plywood sheets when you pull them up. You have the great start to an awesome shop.