Engine tear down, Engine help Options

[simonjb]

So I decided to clean up my original engine while I run the car with a modified scat engine.

When I drained the oil I found these....two small pieces and the nut.....(dime for size). So I started to tear down the top end and found one cylinder that looked not so good. The others are the same as the right side. went down further and removed the pistons and am now cleaning them all up. Everything looks ok. I really don’t want to split the case or go any further and from what I see inside all look good. So two questions....

1) any thought on why this cylinder isn’t firing right ?

2) can I use something like gasoline or similar to flush and clean out the inside of the case with the crank and oil pump etc still attached?

3) any reason why I can’t use all the old parts ?

4) any thought on the nut?

Thanks....

[Tbrown4x4]

Why did you pull the engine? How long did it sit?

That's a lot of rust to just put everything back together without a trip to the machine shop.

The nut kind of looks like a rod nut, but can you get a boroscope into the case and see if any are missing?

In my eyes, that should be a full tear down and inspection.

[jmalone]

Tear it down. Several obvious problems and likely more unseen ones! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[porschetub]

Water has entered the motor so you need a top overhaul,the heads will need work also,I flushed out my last crankcase with petrol and was amazed @ the shit that came out and then did a final wash with brakeclean,came out really clean.
You will have limited use of the existing parts unless you rebore the barrels to 96mm with new pistons,unless you can find a good used 94mm barrel and piston for that cylinder you have had water in.
The heads will need rebuilding if they aren't cracked or have bad seats and guides other than that a good used set may be a better option...depends on your funds.
That isn't a rod nut ,appears to be a random someone dropped in there,in the early days I found part of a spring in my 911 conversion motor and none of the wise men on Pelican knew what it was so wasn't worried.

[Cairo94507]

That nut looks like it is a recent addition to the engine. I see no evidence it ever bounced around in there while the engine ran.

Since I am dreaming and spending your money....if it were me, that engine would come apart and have everything checked. At the bare minimum, have the crank checked and polished, cylinders honed with new bearings, rings, etc. and balance everything. Of course a complete head/valve job. If I had a 4 cylinder car it would be a 2056 with a cam that would work well with the factory FI and then a nice SS exhaust system with heat of course. I would also run a little oil cooler just because it gets hot here in CA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[simonjb]

Thanks all...so I will take the advice and tear it all down - any advice on new Pistons?

[Tdskip]

Piston/jug sets are pretty cheap, not sure the time/labor/risk of trying to re-use is worth it in this case.

[mepstein]

Piston/jug sets are pretty cheap, not sure the time/labor/risk of trying to re-use is worth it in this case.

Many people reborn the cylinders and get pistons to fit since the original ones were made with good metal and a good machine shop should make the cylinders round which isn’t always the case with replacement cylinders.

But before you purchase anything, break the engine down, clean the parts and assess what you have.

[simonjb]

So I'm now in full tear down mode. This is what I found - some pieces missing off the camshaft gear. I assume this needs to be replaced? The part number of the cam looks like 021 109 101K? and the gear is 021 109 111B

[Superhawk996]

Abosolutely replace it. That engine has seen some abuse. Inspect carefully.

[simonjb]

Any ideas on where to find new camshafts?

[Tbrown4x4]

Webb Cam, CP1, LNengineering, air-cooled.net...………...

[Superhawk996]

@ simonjb

Don't take this the wrong way, I have no idea about your background and experience with engine rebuilds. But, based on your questions, I would suggest a few things:

1) Read the factory manuals. Get familiar with this engine, its parts, and the components.

http://p914-6info.net/Manuals.htm

2) buy the CD from Jake Raby on how to rebuild type 4 VW engines. They are different than than typical VW type 1 engine. It appears to me from your heads and pistons that you have a 2.0L which is just another more unique variant of the typical type 4 than you might othewise find in 914's (1.7L/1.8L) or a VW bus. Sample of video below. The cost of the CD will be saved x10 in mistakes later. Plus it's entertaining to see Jake so young! We were all much younger back then! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OOwrsOmXJc


3) Before you go buy a cam you need to know what you want to do with the engine. Will it be stock Fuel Injection (FI) or will you be running carbs? The cam selection will depend on the answer. I can't see much from the photo of the stock cam but from what little I can see, it almost appears that that cam doesn't even have much wear on it. Can you post a photo of just the cam lobes at the most narrow end (in side view)? That is where the typical wear occurs. You typically get a noticeable U shaped trough at the center of the lobe where the two lifters share the same portion of the cam lobe.

As a community, the members here are awesome & are here to help, but, if you're not already familiar with Porsche 914's and Type 4 engines #1 and #2 are priceless resources.

[BeatNavy]

^^ All good points.

I'd add the Wilson book as a good resource as well: https://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Volkswagen-a...s/dp/0895862255

Try to develop a plan before you start buying parts. Completely stock, induction system, what compression ratio, etc. These are things I eventually figured out as I went along, but an experienced builder goes into a rebuild knowing them ahead of time.

[Superhawk996]

^^ All good points.

I'd add the Wilson book as a good resource as well: https://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Volkswagen-a...s/dp/0895862255

Try to develop a plan before you start buying parts. Completely stock, induction system, what compression ratio, etc. These are things I eventually figured out as I went along, but an experienced builder goes into a rebuild knowing them ahead of time.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I don't know how I forgot that one! That book is a must have. That book actually is what I learned with before there was ever an internet or Raby videos!

I still have my original, and it's falling to pieces. This past Christmas my wife bought me a new copy! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/santa_smiley.gif) Best wife ever!

[simonjb]

Thanks all. I have the book and the Raby DVD number 8. It seems finding a stock OEM 2.0 cam with gear is almost impossible. My cam shaft is in good shape, but the gear is chipped . The gear is riveted to the shaft - and I see that some places sell the gear only - with bolts. Is this an ok way to go? Or should I try to find a cam with the gear attached?

[simonjb]

anyone?

[Superhawk996]

anyone?

@simonjb

If you're staying with stock cam profile, Web Cam has the stock profile available and of course you'll need to buy the seperate bolt on cam gear. Of course they have other cam profiles available for use with carbs too.

As you've noted the stock cam is rivited to the stock cam gear. As a generalizaion, I'm pretty sure a competent machine shop could drill and tap the stock cam to work with an aftermarket bolt on gear. However, given the risk and expense in doing this, it would make more sense just to buy the Web Cam & bolt on gear for around $300 ish.

The main reason I was curious about your stock cam was that they are usually worn out and need replacment anyway. If the stock cam is not worn, then that is a reasonable indicator of how much mileage was on the engine before this cam gear chipping occured.

Becuase your cam gear is chipped you need to pay special attention to the crank side mating gear. It may be damaged too from whatever caused the cam gear to chip. Pay special attention to this engine. When you've had a gear chip like that something (other engine schrapnel?) got in between the teeth and caused the chip.

Likewise, once I've had scrapnel in an engine like you have had:

1) I consider the oil cooler to be scrap. There is no way to ensure that some particle of debris isn't stuck in the oil cooler waiting to come out only after you've freshly rebuilt your engine.

2) Disassemble the oil pump - schrapnel will score up the pump gears and/or the aluminum pump body damaging it's ability to deliver proper oil pressure. You don't want to rebuild the rest of the engine with a damaged oil pump.

3) All oil galley plugs need to be pulled to ensure there isn't debris stuck at the end of a galley just waiting to come out into you're freshly rebuilt engine.

[BeatNavy]

I kind of think that's the way they are all sold now. Probably because there are so many different grinds now that it doesn't make sense to slap gears on all of them. Box up the grind the customer wants, throw in the one and only timing gear, and let the customer assemble.

It's also probably fairly rare to want to replace your gear but not the cam. You could drill out the rivets and tap them for bolts so you could buy just the gear. But I wouldn't necessarily trust myself doing that correctly.

[simonjb]

Thanks guys. Replace both it is....