adventures in suspension, I took some measurements... |
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adventures in suspension, I took some measurements... |
914 RZ-1 |
Mar 30 2020, 08:16 PM
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#1
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
I was on a drive with some other folks on Sunday (don't worry; we all kept 6 feet apart) and the guy behind me tells me that when I turn hard right the car leans more than when I turn hard left. Looks like the springs/shocks/suspension needs some attention. Where do I begin?
I have never replaced or adjusted any of the suspension on this car. For replacement parts (if I need them), what are good shocks and springs and where is a good place to get them? I'm not looking for anything fancy; the "stock" ride is fine. Are there any techniques or fancy tools I should know about? Thanks! |
Jamie |
Mar 30 2020, 08:37 PM
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#2
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,024 Joined: 13-October 04 From: Georgetown,KY Member No.: 2,939 Region Association: South East States |
I was on a drive with some other folks on Sunday (don't worry; we all kept 6 feet apart) and the guy behind me tells me that when I turn hard right the car leans more than when I turn hard left. Looks like the springs/shocks/suspension needs some attention. Where do I begin? I have never replaced or adjusted any of the suspension on this car. For replacement parts (if I need them), what are good shocks and springs and where is a good place to get them? I'm not looking for anything fancy; the "stock" ride is fine. Are there any techniques or fancy tools I should know about? Thanks! First we need to know how much you weigh? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/icon8.gif) |
r_towle |
Mar 30 2020, 08:44 PM
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#3
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,501 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
Typical old sports car issue.
Replace springs, shocks and torsion bars. One person, 40 years, wears out the suspension. |
mepstein |
Mar 30 2020, 09:16 PM
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#4
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,142 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I've purchased at least a dozen 914's and they all have worn out shocks and springs.
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bdstone914 |
Mar 30 2020, 09:50 PM
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#5
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,496 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
@914 RZ-1
' date='Mar 30 2020, 07:16 PM' post='2799301'] I was on a drive with some other folks on Sunday (don't worry; we all kept 6 feet apart) and the guy behind me tells me that when I turn hard right the car leans more than when I turn hard left. Looks like the springs/shocks/suspension needs some attention. Where do I begin? I have never replaced or adjusted any of the suspension on this car. For replacement parts (if I need them), what are good shocks and springs and where is a good place to get them? I'm not looking for anything fancy; the "stock" ride is fine. Are there any techniques or fancy tools I should know about? Thanks! [/quote] I have good used shocks. Need to test the springs. Is the car level side to side when parked? 914World.com | FS Used and Sachs- BOGE Rear assemblies http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=344379 |
914 RZ-1 |
Mar 30 2020, 10:32 PM
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#6
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
1. I don't think I have any rear torsion springs (referred to as "rear stabilizer" in the Haynes manual). Do the front torsion bars ("transverse control arms" in the Haynes manual) need replacing? I don't have any front stabilizers; those were from 73 on and I have a 72.
2. All I see in the Haynes manual is a "shock absorber strut". The actual shock absorber doesn't seem to have a label! It also looks like a major process to take this apart and replace it. 3. Am I correct in that the steering geometry can be altered when I take off the pressure plates at the top of the front shocks? 4. Looks like there is a special tool that is used to get the nut at the top of the front strut off? 5. Looks like I need a spring compressor for the rear springs. Can someone confirm/clarify this for me before I decide to get into this. Thanks! |
falcor75 |
Mar 30 2020, 10:49 PM
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#7
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,578 Joined: 22-November 12 From: Sweden Member No.: 15,176 Region Association: Scandinavia |
5. Yes you need spring compressors, dont cheap on safety.
4. If you have a welder you can make it yourself by welding a piece of tube to the right size socket and then using the right size allen wrench to the top of the strut to keep it from turning. The "lid" of the strut can be removed if you put the strut in a vice and use a soft metal drift on the teeth of the lid. 3. Yes a wheel alignment afterwards is usually needed (its cheaper than new tires) 2. Its not that hard to take apart aslong as you have a sturdy vice and access to some tools. For new inserts either go with Bilstein or Koni, they are the proven quality brands. 1. I dont know, I dont think the torsion bars are equally susceptible to wear and fatigue as coil springs but hopefully someone that knows better can chime in. |
thelogo |
Mar 30 2020, 11:47 PM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Retired Members Posts: 1,510 Joined: 6-April 10 Member No.: 11,572 Region Association: None |
You fix it by moving the drivers seat to the middle
Have you seen a ( the ) mclaren f1 ? Your 914 is a 2180 lbs car ? It s just plaful / twitchy thats all (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif) |
roblav1 |
Mar 31 2020, 10:33 AM
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#9
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: 18-September 12 From: KY Member No.: 14,943 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I would corner weight every wheel before doing anything, especially the fronts first. If the rear springs are original, they're sagged by now!
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bdstone914 |
Mar 31 2020, 11:31 AM
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#10
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bdstone914 Group: Members Posts: 4,496 Joined: 8-November 03 From: Riverside CA Member No.: 1,319 |
@914 RZ-1
1. I don't think I have any rear torsion springs (referred to as "rear stabilizer" in the Haynes manual). Do the front torsion bars ("transverse control arms" in the Haynes manual) need replacing? I don't have any front stabilizers; those were from 73 on and I have a 72. reply to 1 You only have springs and shocks in the back. You probably need to replace them. I suggest 914 Rubber 100 lb. 2. All I see in the Haynes manual is a "shock absorber strut". The actual shock absorber doesn't seem to have a label! It also looks like a major process to take this apart and replace it. reply to 2. It is fairly easy to replace front strut inserts. You do not need to remove the three bolts on the hold down plates. Only remove the 22nm nut on the strut shaft.Bent down the retaining tab. An impact works best to remove the nut. Alternate way tis grip the big keyed washer with channel lock plyers and remove the center nut. Ususally a two person job. Can be done one side at a time. After removing the 22mm nut compress the strut and carefully pull it outside of the fender. Use a large pipe wrench to remove the strut retaining nut. Test the insert for even compression and rebound. No realignment is needed. 3. Am I correct in that the steering geometry can be altered when I take off the pressure plates at the top of the front shocks? reply to 3. Yes but you do not need to, See above 4. Looks like there is a special tool that is used to get the nut at the top of the front strut off? reply to 4. As stated above use an impact to remove and a big pipe wrench for the insert retaining nut. 5. Looks like I need a spring compressor for the rear springs. relpy to 5. Yes. Local FLAPS rent them for free. You need to install the spring compressors with about 2 inches o thread extending out of the bottom so that you can uncompress the spring fully. Be careful and stay clear of the path the spring will take if the compressor slips. Can someone confirm/clarify this for me before I decide to get into this. Thanks! [/quote] If you have other questions PM me for my phone number and I can walk you thru it. You can not positivity tell if the shocks or inserts are bad without removing them. Best on car test is to go over speed bumps and see if them bottom out. Bruce |
Mike D. |
Mar 31 2020, 02:59 PM
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#11
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OK, It runs now, and pretty good too! Group: Members Posts: 1,444 Joined: 3-January 03 From: Santa Clarita, Ca Member No.: 85 Region Association: None |
JF - has corner balance scales. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Shocks and springs in the back, shocks in the front and we can check the torsion bars settings. |
914 RZ-1 |
Mar 31 2020, 08:56 PM
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#12
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
After talking to Mike D., and reading your posts (thanks Bruce!) I think I'm confident I can do these.
Now I just need to find the parts. My choices for the front seem to be KYB and Bilstein. I can't seem to find any Boge/Sachs. I've not heard anything good about KYB (did I get bad advice?) and Bilstein are pricey; about $200 each. Is this what I can expect to pay? That's $400 just for the front. Are there any other brands out there? The rear shocks seem to be more readily available. These run about $156 each. The springs (100 lb) are $159/pair. So total price is about $870. Is that right? I just want to make sure I'm getting value. If this is the cost, then fine, but I want to know my options so I thought I'd ask those who've done this before. |
porschetub |
Mar 31 2020, 11:08 PM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 4,695 Joined: 25-July 15 From: New Zealand Member No.: 18,995 Region Association: None |
Replace the springs first you will find out what the shocks are like after that.
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Cairo94507 |
Apr 1 2020, 08:05 AM
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#14
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Michael Group: Members Posts: 9,650 Joined: 1-November 08 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 9,712 Region Association: Northern California |
KYB = "Kill Your Back". Great advise and the parts you need are readily available. Read up on this project and maybe see if one of our members is in your area to lend a hand when the time comes. Tackle the front and wrap it up and then tackle the rear to keep from getting overwhelmed. Take pictures, have a clean well lighted work space and take your time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Bleyseng |
Apr 1 2020, 08:55 AM
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#15
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Aircooled Baby! Group: Members Posts: 13,034 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Seattle, Washington (for now) Member No.: 24 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
I thought George at AA has Boge front shocks now as anything is better than KYB.
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914 RZ-1 |
Apr 4 2020, 04:50 PM
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#16
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Porsche Padawan Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: 17-December 14 From: Santa Clarita, CA Member No.: 18,230 Region Association: Southern California |
For you kids following along at home, I have more info:
1. I bought rear shocks and springs. Gonna tackle that in a short while. 2. The front Boge/Sachs ones don't seem to be available anymore, just Bilstein. I'll wait until next month to get those to keep the CFO (wife) from freaking out. 3. I did the "bounce test" on all four corners. They all feel a bit soft and are not consistent. 4. I made some measurements: a. I have 205/60 tires b. Front axle height as defined in the Haynes manual (p. 108). Distance from hub cap center to ground is 295.5 mm on driver's side and 299 mm on passenger side. Distance from torsion bar adjuster lever to ground is 135.5 mm (driver)/133 mm (passenger). The difference i supposed to be 90 mm +/- 5 mm. Do the math and you'll get 160.5 mm (driver)/166 mm (passenger). Seems my car has been lowered or the springs are really saggy. c. I also measured from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well as shown in the sketch. The back is pretty consistent (different by 1 mm), but the fronts are different from each other by 25 mm. I didn't think the difference in the front an back dimensions were an issue. In other words, do all 4 dimensions need to be the same? What do I need to do to fix/adjust this? I am thinking I will replace the rear springs and shocks and see what happens. Then replace the front strut inserts and see what effect that has, then go from there. Thoughts? |
Jamie |
Apr 4 2020, 08:50 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,024 Joined: 13-October 04 From: Georgetown,KY Member No.: 2,939 Region Association: South East States |
For you kids following along at home, I have more info: 1. I bought rear shocks and springs. Gonna tackle that in a short while. 2. The front Boge/Sachs ones don't seem to be available anymore, just Bilstein. I'll wait until next month to get those to keep the CFO (wife) from freaking out. 3. I did the "bounce test" on all four corners. They all feel a bit soft and are not consistent. 4. I made some measurements: a. I have 205/60 tires b. Front axle height as defined in the Haynes manual (p. 108). Distance from hub cap center to ground is 295.5 mm on driver's side and 299 mm on passenger side. Distance from torsion bar adjuster lever to ground is 135.5 mm (driver)/133 mm (passenger). The difference i supposed to be 90 mm +/- 5 mm. Do the math and you'll get 160.5 mm (driver)/166 mm (passenger). Seems my car has been lowered or the springs are really saggy. c. I also measured from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well as shown in the sketch. The back is pretty consistent (different by 1 mm), but the fronts are different from each other by 25 mm. I didn't think the difference in the front an back dimensions were an issue. In other words, do all 4 dimensions need to be the same? What do I need to do to fix/adjust this? I am thinking I will replace the rear springs and shocks and see what happens. Then replace the front strut inserts and see what effect that has, then go from there. Thoughts? Original saggy rear springs almost always need #100 replacements, and variation in front may be due to different torsion bar adjustments. |
bkrantz |
Apr 4 2020, 09:06 PM
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#18
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,667 Joined: 3-August 19 From: SW Colorado Member No.: 23,343 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
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roblav1 |
Apr 4 2020, 10:22 PM
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#19
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: 18-September 12 From: KY Member No.: 14,943 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I suspect someone lowered the car without doing it properly. Cornerweights should have been taken, with ARBs disconnected, to match left to right. Then set camber, check caster, then do toe. Otherwise, the car will handle unpredictably and tires will wear quickly.
For you kids following along at home, I have more info: 1. I bought rear shocks and springs. Gonna tackle that in a short while. 2. The front Boge/Sachs ones don't seem to be available anymore, just Bilstein. I'll wait until next month to get those to keep the CFO (wife) from freaking out. 3. I did the "bounce test" on all four corners. They all feel a bit soft and are not consistent. 4. I made some measurements: a. I have 205/60 tires b. Front axle height as defined in the Haynes manual (p. 108). Distance from hub cap center to ground is 295.5 mm on driver's side and 299 mm on passenger side. Distance from torsion bar adjuster lever to ground is 135.5 mm (driver)/133 mm (passenger). The difference i supposed to be 90 mm +/- 5 mm. Do the math and you'll get 160.5 mm (driver)/166 mm (passenger). Seems my car has been lowered or the springs are really saggy. c. I also measured from the ground to the bottom of the wheel well as shown in the sketch. The back is pretty consistent (different by 1 mm), but the fronts are different from each other by 25 mm. I didn't think the difference in the front an back dimensions were an issue. In other words, do all 4 dimensions need to be the same? What do I need to do to fix/adjust this? I am thinking I will replace the rear springs and shocks and see what happens. Then replace the front strut inserts and see what effect that has, then go from there. Thoughts? |
ndfrigi |
Apr 4 2020, 10:40 PM
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#20
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 21-August 11 From: Orange County Member No.: 13,474 Region Association: Southern California |
For sure you can replace the rear shocks in an hour or Two as long you have spring compresser. Not really hard. And if the shocks is bad, after removal from the spring, you will notice the shock will not go up after pushing it in. Front a little tricky when you remove the insert from the strut but doable for 1 man job also.
Front height adjustment just a bolt one each side. |
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