LED headlight question, is there a relay that will fix the fog light / LED headlight conundrum? Options

[DRPHIL914]

exact issue is this: with the LED headlight bulb (which are super btw!) in which if i turn on the fog lights the high berms go on, the relay will not leave the low beam on with the fogs on. Also i do have Spokewerks LED fog bulbs.

so what is the fix for this? do i add resistor, or do i change fog light relay??

Phil

oh btw here is a picture of the difference between LED(drivers) and the stock incandescent(passenger)

[DRPHIL914]

no suggestions??

ok here is one other piece of information: i have the fog light flasher relay conversion installed that allows me to turn on fog light by itself and if you pull the lever it will flash the headlamps on and off to signal on coming traffic, now i am wondering if this is what is causing the issue but i was hoping someone would chime in as to whether they had experienced the same thing and if so what the remedy is.

[911GT2]

no suggestions??

I don't understand this sentence :

exact issue is this: with the LED headlight bulb (which are super btw!) in which if i turn on the fog lights the high berms go on, the relay will not leave the low beam on with the fogs on. Also i do have Spokewerks LED fog bulbs.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[DRPHIL914]

"exact issue is this: with the LED headlight bulb (which are super btw!) in which if i turn on the fog lights the high berms go on, the relay will not leave the low beam on with the fogs on. Also i do have Spokewerks LED fog bulbs"

lack of punctuation is a killer sorry,

with the LED headlight bulb installed, if I turn on the fog lights the high beam headlamp comes on. If the lights are on, but the fog lights are off, and I turn on the fog lights, then the LED bulb switches to high beam on its own, so the relay is switching and turning on the LED high beam and it will not go back to low beam pulling the lever, not unless I turn the fog lights off, so I cant run the fog lights and the low beam at the same time, is that more clear?

Phil

[DRPHIL914]

found this on google search, on ford F150 forum:

"If you engage high beams, it automatically turns off the fog lights. ... Since Ford has this wiring setup, it will cause a back feed on the ground circuit of your fog lights, and make your high beams turn on. To fix this issue, you must isolate the ground circuit on your fog lights.Sep 23, 2016"

and this on Pelican for an '89 911 - ( http://forums.pelicanparts.com/9463272-post52.html )

"So the issue was this, the fuses for the high beams have your incomer from the headlight switch and on the outlet side the wires going to your bulbs. Also on the outlet side, is a wire that goes to the high beam indicator, and another wire that cuts the foglights out with the high beam on. This wire is not on the wire diagram in the Bentley manual, so it wasnt until i actually looked at the wiring did i realize what was happening .

So the fix for this is to ground that wire for the fog lights somewhere on the chassis... this will result in your fogs staying on even if you activate the high beam. I dont have the full wiring diagram but i am guessing the fog relay is grounded through the high beam wiring circuit. When you hit the high beam, 12v goes through the entire circuit cutting the fog light relay out."

so I need to isolate the ground for the fog lights- I figured it had to be the voltage issue or lack ther of with the LED and the voltage feeding back thru the relay causing the relay to then turn on the high beams. so surely someone here has done this before and can guide me thru the process of where/how to ground the fogs . do I pull the ground from the fuse box and run it to body like this guy did, or just at the headlight housing? Maybe 914rubber will chime in... Hey Mark

@mikey914

Phil

[FlacaProductions]

Hey @DRPHIL914 - I think this is what you're thinking about? It cured things for me along these lines: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&...t&p=2704213

Start around that post and you may have to roll back to get some context but the 'ground the blu-wht line' approach worked for me....

[911GT2]

found this on google search, on ford F150 forum:

"If you engage high beams, it automatically turns off the fog lights. ... Since Ford has this wiring setup, it will cause a back feed on the ground circuit of your fog lights, and make your high beams turn on. To fix this issue, you must isolate the ground circuit on your fog lights.Sep 23, 2016"

and this on Pelican for an '89 911 - ( http://forums.pelicanparts.com/9463272-post52.html )

"So the issue was this, the fuses for the high beams have your incomer from the headlight switch and on the outlet side the wires going to your bulbs. Also on the outlet side, is a wire that goes to the high beam indicator, and another wire that cuts the foglights out with the high beam on. This wire is not on the wire diagram in the Bentley manual, so it wasnt until i actually looked at the wiring did i realize what was happening .

So the fix for this is to ground that wire for the fog lights somewhere on the chassis... this will result in your fogs staying on even if you activate the high beam. I dont have the full wiring diagram but i am guessing the fog relay is grounded through the high beam wiring circuit. When you hit the high beam, 12v goes through the entire circuit cutting the fog light relay out."

so I need to isolate the ground for the fog lights- I figured it had to be the voltage issue or lack ther of with the LED and the voltage feeding back thru the relay causing the relay to then turn on the high beams. so surely someone here has done this before and can guide me thru the process of where/how to ground the fogs . do I pull the ground from the fuse box and run it to body like this guy did, or just at the headlight housing? Maybe 914rubber will chime in... Hey Mark

@mikey914

Phil

I think there isn't enough resistance in the LED's. So the relay doesn't really 'understand' what's going on. Maybe adding a resistance to the LED bulbs wil help you solve this issue.

[Mikey914]

found this on google search, on ford F150 forum:

"If you engage high beams, it automatically turns off the fog lights. ... Since Ford has this wiring setup, it will cause a back feed on the ground circuit of your fog lights, and make your high beams turn on. To fix this issue, you must isolate the ground circuit on your fog lights.Sep 23, 2016"

and this on Pelican for an '89 911 - ( http://forums.pelicanparts.com/9463272-post52.html )

"So the issue was this, the fuses for the high beams have your incomer from the headlight switch and on the outlet side the wires going to your bulbs. Also on the outlet side, is a wire that goes to the high beam indicator, and another wire that cuts the foglights out with the high beam on. This wire is not on the wire diagram in the Bentley manual, so it wasnt until i actually looked at the wiring did i realize what was happening .

So the fix for this is to ground that wire for the fog lights somewhere on the chassis... this will result in your fogs staying on even if you activate the high beam. I dont have the full wiring diagram but i am guessing the fog relay is grounded through the high beam wiring circuit. When you hit the high beam, 12v goes through the entire circuit cutting the fog light relay out."

so I need to isolate the ground for the fog lights- I figured it had to be the voltage issue or lack ther of with the LED and the voltage feeding back thru the relay causing the relay to then turn on the high beams. so surely someone here has done this before and can guide me thru the process of where/how to ground the fogs . do I pull the ground from the fuse box and run it to body like this guy did, or just at the headlight housing? Maybe 914rubber will chime in... Hey Mark

@mikey914

Phil

Yes this is an unfortunate result of using less current. As the two are interconnected the relay.Spoke bypassed and separated the circuits in the thread. That is my preferred method as it's not adding a load into a system that is not really necessary.

I may have a few resistors hanging out. Let me know if you want to go that way I'll take a look.
mark

[DRPHIL914]

found this on google search, on ford F150 forum:

"If you engage high beams, it automatically turns off the fog lights. ... Since Ford has this wiring setup, it will cause a back feed on the ground circuit of your fog lights, and make your high beams turn on. To fix this issue, you must isolate the ground circuit on your fog lights.Sep 23, 2016"

and this on Pelican for an '89 911 - ( http://forums.pelicanparts.com/9463272-post52.html )

"So the issue was this, the fuses for the high beams have your incomer from the headlight switch and on the outlet side the wires going to your bulbs. Also on the outlet side, is a wire that goes to the high beam indicator, and another wire that cuts the foglights out with the high beam on. This wire is not on the wire diagram in the Bentley manual, so it wasnt until i actually looked at the wiring did i realize what was happening .

So the fix for this is to ground that wire for the fog lights somewhere on the chassis... this will result in your fogs staying on even if you activate the high beam. I dont have the full wiring diagram but i am guessing the fog relay is grounded through the high beam wiring circuit. When you hit the high beam, 12v goes through the entire circuit cutting the fog light relay out."

so I need to isolate the ground for the fog lights- I figured it had to be the voltage issue or lack ther of with the LED and the voltage feeding back thru the relay causing the relay to then turn on the high beams. so surely someone here has done this before and can guide me thru the process of where/how to ground the fogs . do I pull the ground from the fuse box and run it to body like this guy did, or just at the headlight housing? Maybe 914rubber will chime in... Hey Mark

@mikey914

Phil

Yes this is an unfortunate result of using less current. As the two are interconnected the relay.Spoke bypassed and separated the circuits in the thread. That is my preferred method as it's not adding a load into a system that is not really necessary.

I may have a few resistors hanging out. Let me know if you want to go that way I'll take a look.
mark

Mark, let me know if you do have them. do you know what they are just off hand? how
many ohms? i have a few somewhere too, not sure.
but i am going to look at the ground modification as well and see if they will do it. i don’t want to leave it as is, i want to be able to run the fogs by themselves or with low beams as it should be.

Phil

[Mikey914]

Not sure if Matt moved them or not. I know I have some somewhere. I'll keep looking

[Spoke]

@DRPHIL914

Phil,

Adding a high power ballast resistor is one way to get the lights to work correctly and 914rubber's ballast resistors absolutely work.

However you've installed really nice LED headlights drawing much less power from the electrical system just to introduce high power ballast resistors to drain more current from the electrical system.

The way to go is to move the blue/white wire from the fuse box and ground it. Check the thread referenced above and a couple of posts before where Bruce and I find that blue/white wire and ground it. Now your fogs will work any time you want them on. Keep in mind that the original arrangement with the fogs turning off with high beams was for a major car manufacturer selling their product worldwide.

I can help you get through this if you want. You can call me if you want. I'll PM my phone number. I have time..........................

[DRPHIL914]

@DRPHIL914

Phil,

Adding a high power ballast resistor is one way to get the lights to work correctly and 914rubber's ballast resistors absolutely work.

However you've installed really nice LED headlights drawing much less power from the electrical system just to introduce high power ballast resistors to drain more current from the electrical system.

The way to go is to move the blue/white wire from the fuse box and ground it. Check the thread referenced above and a couple of posts before where Bruce and I find that blue/white wire and ground it. Now your fogs will work any time you want them on. Keep in mind that the original arrangement with the fogs turning off with high beams was for a major car manufacturer selling their product worldwide.

I can help you get through this if you want. You can call me if you want. I'll PM my phone number. I have time..........................

will give you a call tomorrow. i just reviewed that thread, looks straight forward enough. i i will take a look tomorrow. thanks for the help!

[Bleyseng]

That is exactly what I did to solve the problem.

[DRPHIL914]

i took the white wire with blue stripe that comes from the fog light relay, which normally terminates(grounds thru the negative on the fuse box #1 fuse, and grounded it to this chassis ground point, thus making it work independently from the high/low light circuit. now it’s on with its own switch and does not turn off when high beams go on either.

[FlacaProductions]

Yahtzee. That's the fix.

[Wyvern]

Yahtzee. That's the fix.

And here I am ... thinking it was just me ... or I messed something up. Thanks for all the great info

[mmichalik]

I noticed this on mine today as well. I will ground the blue / white wire to fix the issue.
Thanks for posting this out here.