Intermittant No Start, No clicky, no nothing Options

[Jakester]

While I'm working on the water cooled VW, I have been using the teener as a daily driver for the last two weeks. Unfortunately, I have been left stranded twice since there is a starter circuit problem that is intermittant.

I can usually tell when it's coming because the last 2-3 times I start it before it crops up, there seems to be a slight delay in the starter engaging (like 1/2 sec). At first I thought it was heat related, but I got up this AM to start and nothing.

I can hear a relay under my pass seat click when starter circuit is made, but zero noise from the started itself. Things I've checked so far:

1) Battery charge - good
2) Battery connections - good, no corrosion, good ground to body
3) Tranny ground strap - present, nice and tight
4) Starter connections - present (although not pretty) and tight

I suspect the ignition switch, but all the jiggling in the world will not get even a click out of the starter. I did replace the ignition switch early on as it was in pieces. Also suspect the starter solenoid but usually you hear something from that area when it fails, don't you?

I drove the van to work this AM but I need to get it back to my wife at lunch and I REALLY don't want to push start the teener (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

Thanks for your ideas.

[Mark Henry]

Do a search on a ford solinoid fix.

[tdgray]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/agree.gif)

Sounds like classic solenoid problem.

[Jakester]

Cool - guess I'll do a search next time. Would have come up with this

As usual, you guys rock! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

[wwhalenc]

try bypassing the relay under your passenger seat (jump the two thickest yellow wires together) if it already hasn't been done. I had this same problem this past week. --C

[Joe Bob]

I disagree...my guess is ignition switch.

Hot start issues are usually after a good long drive...not commutes. They also don't have delays in starting then not start at all.

Is the switch sloppy? Can you pull the key out when it's running? Those are just a few signs of a worn out ignition....

[ClayPerrine]

This sounds like the "big brother" relay that is under the passenger seats in a 74. Pull the passenger seat and unplug the metal can relay that is there. Then jump the big yellow wire to the big yellow with a red stripe wire. Check the starter. That should fix it.

[Jakester]

Ok, went home, yanked the pass seat, pulled the "BB" relay and jumpered the two big yellow wires.

Fired right up. No hesitation whatsoever.

What does this tell me? At this point, nothing. Since that has been the nature of this beast so far. Works great 90% of the time, occasionally nothing.

Got the van back to my better half, though, and got me back to work sans AC!

Question: Is this relay specific to the '74 only? Where did all those wires go on other years? Other threads indicate that, other than the fact that some of the wires share voltage (i.e. they are tied together going IN to the relay), that you can remove the relay with no effect. What's the deal?

[ClayPerrine]

The intent of the relay was to prevent the car from starting if the seat was occupied and the belt was not hooked. It also run the light on the dash that says "Fasten Seat belts". It's tied in with the door jamb switches that work the dome light, the switch that indicates the key is in the ignition and a bunch of other "nag me" stuff.

By jumping the relay, you have effectively disabled the only thing that would keep you from running. When I rewired Betty's car, I removed all the crap for that relay and tossed the relay and it's associated (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/stromberg.gif) into the closest trash can.

I also covered the dash where the fasten seat belt light would be. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Rand]

That seatbelt relay crap was used through '76. I ditched it all. If you see multiple wires coming to the same terminal at that relay, tie those together (I think those are mostly grounds - DD could elaborate). Dump the rest. The big yellow wire (starter switch to solenoid) is the main thing... make sure it's soldered well and sealed up with heat-shrink or the like.

I have no doubt it's just a dirty connection that's been causing your intermittent problem. I would suggest cleaning more connections... Sounds like you've been through some of that, but... Remember just because the ground strap is bolted tight, doesn't mean there isn't corrosion under there. Take some of those connections lose, wire brush or sand them clean, put them back tight. Sometimes female spade connectors need to be pinched closed a bit to tighten them up.

You mentioned a hesitation when hitting start, then it cranked... that's a classic symptom of a dirty connection, particularly at a connection that pulls a lot of current, such as at the ground strap or starter.

Cleaning connections will do wonders. Many people replace solenoids to fix their problem when really the solenoid wasn't bad - just taking the connections apart and putting them back was the real fix. Yeah, solenoids fail, but not as often as people think.

Ok, I'm done rambling about cleaning connections now.... Glad it fired right up, and hope it's a done deal.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smilie_pokal.gif)

[Jakester]

Yeah, I tend to agree with the grounding issue theory. I went for the relay cause it was easier to get to than the tranny ground strap or any of the others (especially still dressed in my work clothes).

I'm looking for band-aids for the short term, since, as soon as the Passat is up and running again, I will be taking the 914 down for body, electrical, interior, and engine work. All these buggers will be addressed then.

Thanks for your help.
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smash.gif)

[Jakester]

Just thought I would update. Since removal of the relay and jumping the yellow wires, I've started the teener about 50 times. No more problems.

Now I just have to drive it around enough to empty the full tank of gas, then it goes up on jackstands for probably at least 12 months...

Thanks for all your help. You ROCK! (reference to Finding Nemo, my 2 year-old's favorite movie). (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

[Mark Henry]

QUOTE (Jakester @ Jul 22 2005, 01:08 PM)

You ROCK! (reference to Finding Nemo, my 2 year-old's favorite movie). (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

dOOd...I'm sick of Nemo (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wacko.gif)

Father of a 4 and 6 yr old...seen Nemo too many times...

Just chilling (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/cool.gif)