914-6 Basket Case, What is the Bid/Ask spread? Options

[ctc911ctc]

All,

I know a guy that has a 9146 that is a basket case - all of the parts are off and taken apart. All orig numbers.

Rusty car, though has some really good parts - some not so good.

What is the bid-ask spread for this kinda car?

I am thinking 17-25??????????

[mepstein]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) It take some deep pockets to do rust repair, rebuild engine and trans, restore every part and buy all the rest.

[914Sixer]

Buy it as CHEAP as you can IF you got to have it. Start around $10K and see where it goes.

[Cairo94507]

Show up with cash and be ready to walk away. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

you hit it, if everything is there it is worth 20 just for the parts, however you musts not part the car but rather save it some how. Many are too far gone to make restoration practical, but saving the car as a whole without restoring it is the other alternative.

Case in point the six prototype. It is SO bad and has SUCH unique parts, that it cannot be restored in any practical manner. All that can and should be done to this one is a "deep cleaning" and to get it running. There is something to be said about a "patina" car these days with everything so "over" restored

All,

I know a guy that has a 9146 that is a basket case - all of the parts are off and taken apart. All orig numbers.

Rusty car, though has some really good parts - some not so good.

What is the bid-ask spread for this kinda car?

I am thinking 17-25??????????

[Unobtanium-inc]

This one is about as rough as it gets, but does have drivetrain. It has been a no sale for months at $19,000, so there is a limit the market will bare for a real 914/6.
So while the one is a real shiznit box, it is a good comp on what a rough six is worth, the market is pretty clear this one isn't worth $19,000.

[Unobtanium-inc]

There is also one near you, guy wants $25,000 firm, or at least he did a few weeks ago. Last I heard he still had it.
One of my spotters tipped me onto it, I couldn't make the math work so I passed.

[stevegm]

It couldn’t be more of a basket case than mine. Bought it a few years ago. PM me and I’ll share the details if you like.

[roblav1]

On the math side, I'd quantify the value of a 914/6 basket case as the value of a 914/4 basket case plus the difference in value between the /6 parts and the /4 parts.

But other people quantify it by considering the potential end value, which assumes considerably more risk.

My math would put the value of a /6 basket case as no more than $10k. And that's being generous.

[rgalla9146]

On the math side, I'd quantify the value of a 914/6 basket case as the value of a 914/4 basket case plus the difference in value between the /6 parts and the /4 parts.

But other people quantify it by considering the potential end value, which assumes considerably more risk.

My math would put the value of a /6 basket case as no more than $10k. And that's being generous.

When you find that matching number basket case for 10k please call me .
It'll be very generous.

[sixnotfour]

On the math side, I'd quantify the value of a 914/6 basket case as the value of a 914/4 basket case plus the difference in value between the /6 parts and the /4 parts.

But other people quantify it by considering the potential end value, which assumes considerably more risk.

My math would put the value of a /6 basket case as no more than $10k. And that's being generous.

When you find that matching number basket case for 10k please call me .
It'll be very generous.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
sold mine for 30k 2,5 yrs ago..good hell hole..

[stevegm]

The value of any potentially economic asset is the present value of future cash flows. The six has considerably higher expected future cash flows than a four, both restored and unrestored. That said, to realize the full potential of its potential value, it will be necessary to invest a lot in it. And unless you do much of the work yourself, it could easily be upside down in the short term. All things I’m sure you already have considered. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[Unobtanium-inc]

Applying investment potential and upside down logic to what a project car is worth is a fool's errand. The market always pays more for a project car than it is logically worth. This is for a variety of reasons.
1. Lots of guys have good incomes but don't have $100,000 to drop on a done car, but they can come up with $25,000 and then will spend another $100,000 over the next 5 years to restore it. Are they upside down? Maybe, but the alternative is to not have a cool car.
2. Lots of guys would rather buy a project car so they can control the work done, either by themselves or because they want "their guy" to do the paint, and "the guy" to do the chrome. Anyone who has ever bought a restored car that ends up being a pig with lipstick can understand this.

Bottom line, a project car always brings more than logic says it should, anyone who applies logic to buying will invariably lose out on cool cars and be pissed, because the guy behind you is buying with his heart, not with his head. When I buy cars for myself it tends to be all heart, and I'm rarely disappointed. When I buy for re-sale it's all head, so it doesn't matter how cool the car is, if the math doesn't work it's a no-go. I had to explain this to a guy a few weeks ago who was trying to sell me a Carrera Speedster, he kept saying, "but it's a carrera Speedster!" If the math doesn't add up, it doesn't matter. But that's business, not personal. When I buy personal cars I aim to be as big eyed as the next guy, you get the coolest cars that way and Porsches almost always go up in value so it isn't that you paid too much, you just may have bought too soon. Time heals all wounds.

[stevegm]

Applying investment potential and upside down logic to what a project car is worth is a fool's errand. The market always pays more for a project car than it is logically worth. This is for a variety of reasons.
1. Lots of guys have good incomes but don't have $100,000 to drop on a done car, but they can come up with $25,000 and then will spend another $100,000 over the next 5 years to restore it. Are they upside down? Maybe, but the alternative is to not have a cool car.
2. Lots of guys would rather buy a project car so they can control the work done, either by themselves or because they want "their guy" to do the paint, and "the guy" to do the chrome. Anyone who has ever bought a restored car that ends up being a pig with lipstick can understand this.

Bottom line, a project car always brings more than logic says it should, anyone who applies logic to buying will invariably lose out on cool cars and be pissed, because the guy behind you is buying with his heart, not with his head. When I buy cars for myself it tends to be all heart, and I'm rarely disappointed. When I buy for re-sale it's all head, so it doesn't matter how cool the car is, if the math doesn't work it's a no-go. I had to explain this to a guy a few weeks ago who was trying to sell me a Carrera Speedster, he kept saying, "but it's a carrera Speedster!" If the math doesn't add up, it doesn't matter. But that's business, not personal. When I buy personal cars I aim to be as big eyed as the next guy, you get the coolest cars that way and Porsches almost always go up in value so it isn't that you paid too much, you just may have bought too soon. Time heals all wounds.

Applying anything but an investment mindset, whether economic or an investment in pleasure, will likely lead to disappointment. I agree with your two rationales. My response was really a reply to the comment about “value.” I should have replied directly. Putting behavioral economics aside, the “value,” at least economically is a simple equation - present value of expected cash flows. Either way, it is an “investment,” whether economic or otherwise. Yes, project cars sell for higher than they should, rationally. And to that end, it’s often best to buy as complete, close to “finished,” of a car as can be afforded at the time. The “basket case” project car will likely be upside down for some time, unless the builder does much of the work themself. At least that’s been my observation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[jagalyn]

Applying investment potential and upside down logic to what a project car is worth is a fool's errand. The market always pays more for a project car than it is logically worth. This is for a variety of reasons.
1. Lots of guys have good incomes but don't have $100,000 to drop on a done car, but they can come up with $25,000 and then will spend another $100,000 over the next 5 years to restore it. Are they upside down? Maybe, but the alternative is to not have a cool car.
2. Lots of guys would rather buy a project car so they can control the work done, either by themselves or because they want "their guy" to do the paint, and "the guy" to do the chrome. Anyone who has ever bought a restored car that ends up being a pig with lipstick can understand this.

Bottom line, a project car always brings more than logic says it should, anyone who applies logic to buying will invariably lose out on cool cars and be pissed, because the guy behind you is buying with his heart, not with his head. When I buy cars for myself it tends to be all heart, and I'm rarely disappointed. When I buy for re-sale it's all head, so it doesn't matter how cool the car is, if the math doesn't work it's a no-go. I had to explain this to a guy a few weeks ago who was trying to sell me a Carrera Speedster, he kept saying, "but it's a carrera Speedster!" If the math doesn't add up, it doesn't matter. But that's business, not personal. When I buy personal cars I aim to be as big eyed as the next guy, you get the coolest cars that way and Porsches almost always go up in value so it isn't that you paid too much, you just may have bought too soon. Time heals all wounds.

So right on... and true. Great perspective.

[Unobtanium-inc]

The real value in buying a Porsche is find the tired driver. A tired driver will sell for very close to what a project car will sell for, it makes no sense, but it's true. I've sold driver's of a car for within 20% of a what I sold a project for, even though it would take 10's of thousands to make them equal.
Perfect example, I had a 63 Super 90 Sunroof car a few years ago, matching numbers, rebuilt motor by a known guy, a running/driving car, originally silver, with a goopy 80's red paint job. Bad floor job, but it ran and drove. I figured it was worth $50,000-60,000, nope I had for months and barely got $40,000. 6 months later I had a project super 90 sunroof car, needed everything, I got $32,000. It makes no sense, but it's true. Find a tired driver, fix it up over time, and you'll come out way ahead.

[mountainroads]

Applying investment potential and upside down logic to what a project car is worth is a fool's errand. The market always pays more for a project car than it is logically worth. This is for a variety of reasons.
1. Lots of guys have good incomes but don't have $100,000 to drop on a done car, but they can come up with $25,000 and then will spend another $100,000 over the next 5 years to restore it. Are they upside down? Maybe, but the alternative is to not have a cool car.
2. Lots of guys would rather buy a project car so they can control the work done, either by themselves or because they want "their guy" to do the paint, and "the guy" to do the chrome.

+1 I can personally attest this is so very true.

- MR

[mepstein]

The real value in buying a Porsche is find the tired driver. A tired driver will sell for very close to what a project car will sell for, it makes no sense, but it's true. I've sold driver's of a car for within 20% of a what I sold a project for, even though it would take 10's of thousands to make them equal.
Perfect example, I had a 63 Super 90 Sunroof car a few years ago, matching numbers, rebuilt motor by a known guy, a running/driving car, originally silver, with a goopy 80's red paint job. Bad floor job, but it ran and drove. I figured it was worth $50,000-60,000, nope I had for months and barely got $40,000. 6 months later I had a project super 90 sunroof car, needed everything, I got $32,000. It makes no sense, but it's true. Find a tired driver, fix it up over time, and you'll come out way ahead.

That’s what I’m looking for in a 912. Something I can keep on the road while I fix it up. No rustorations.

[stevegm]

The real value in buying a Porsche is find the tired driver. A tired driver will sell for very close to what a project car will sell for, it makes no sense, but it's true. I've sold driver's of a car for within 20% of a what I sold a project for, even though it would take 10's of thousands to make them equal.
Perfect example, I had a 63 Super 90 Sunroof car a few years ago, matching numbers, rebuilt motor by a known guy, a running/driving car, originally silver, with a goopy 80's red paint job. Bad floor job, but it ran and drove. I figured it was worth $50,000-60,000, nope I had for months and barely got $40,000. 6 months later I had a project super 90 sunroof car, needed everything, I got $32,000. It makes no sense, but it's true. Find a tired driver, fix it up over time, and you'll come out way ahead.

That’s what I’m looking for in a 912. Something I can keep on the road while I fix it up. No rustorations.

Me too! But somehow I end up in rustorations. It’s easy to give advice, but I don’t take my own well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[mepstein]

The real value in buying a Porsche is find the tired driver. A tired driver will sell for very close to what a project car will sell for, it makes no sense, but it's true. I've sold driver's of a car for within 20% of a what I sold a project for, even though it would take 10's of thousands to make them equal.
Perfect example, I had a 63 Super 90 Sunroof car a few years ago, matching numbers, rebuilt motor by a known guy, a running/driving car, originally silver, with a goopy 80's red paint job. Bad floor job, but it ran and drove. I figured it was worth $50,000-60,000, nope I had for months and barely got $40,000. 6 months later I had a project super 90 sunroof car, needed everything, I got $32,000. It makes no sense, but it's true. Find a tired driver, fix it up over time, and you'll come out way ahead.

That’s what I’m looking for in a 912. Something I can keep on the road while I fix it up. No rustorations.

Me too! But somehow I end up in rustorations. It’s easy to give advice, but I don’t take my own well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I can fall in love with any of these cars but then I take them home and they sit. If there was a reputable place that I could get metalwork done in a timely manner for a reasonable price, it would be different but I haven’t found that fantasy.