What intake? SBC. Turbo, Hilborn, both?, Thinking aloud... what do you guys think Options

[Andyrew]

Im running through ebay like normal.. and im getting more and more idea's....

(IMG:http://i8.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/77/27/fb_12_sb.JPG)
Hilborn setup

(IMG:http://i20.ebayimg.com/03/i/04/6d/24/4f_1_b.JPG)
Turbo setup I'll bid on.

Next post for hilborn turbo setup.

[Andyrew]

Turbo hilborn setup... Black is intake runners, blue is turbo cold side, orange is turbo hot side, red is exhaust...

crude... but thats my idea. hilborn has those bolt on venturies.... you get my point.. hehe

[tat2dphreak]

the Hilborn would certainly LOOK cool, but I think the normal EFI turbo would be simpler.

that hilborn setup would look awesome on a N/A engine though

[neo914-6]

Magnacharger, forget turbos! MikeP's ride is gonna be crazy fast, no lag, no babying the tranny! Chatted with Lawrence of Ultima and Chris at Bauer amongst Elmers $200k 914 NASCAR V8 yesterday. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif) Will post pics soon...

[Aaron Cox]

turbo plumbing might get interesting... (no intercooler correct?)

love the hillborn look....

me, id go with 4 weber 48 IDA's (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif)

[Andyrew]

Aaron... running 4 webber ida's would almost quadruple my cost. (I'd have to buy it new... no buying used...) And I'd have to pay MORE for fuel injection.

Mike didnt say he was running a magnacharger!!!
Hmm.. thats pretty cool! I still love turbo's though...

Im gona watch this turbo auction.... if it goes cheap enough, i'll buy the turbo setup. If anything dad will use it on his el camino that he will buy.


Sad that no one shared my idea's for a twin turbo Hilborn injection monster fabrication project.... I think it could be awardable....

Oh well
Thanks!
Andrew

[street legal go-kart]

Come on guys!

The 914 does not need a blown or turbod sbc.
When we were racing the roundyround cars we got 550 hp+ out of off the shelf crate engines that would last thru 2 seasons of severe abuse.
The worst failure we ever had was a broken piston that occured because of a clutch failure and the resultant overev.
The alchohol/hilborn injected sprint car motor was rated at 710 rear wheel hp!
That engine would last about 9-10 events before having to be freshened.
I currently have a Penscke/spec. 302 from a z/28 in my 17' flatbottom and it will run at 5500 rpm all day without a hicup. Stock from GM with a cast iron GM semi highrise and a 750 Holly, 345hp/318tq.
If thats not enough for a teener I don' know what is.
Plus the tuning problems inherent in any turbo or blown settup.
We have raced a bunch of different stuff including blown alcholol drag hydros and a ton of different roundyround stuff and MY choice for tunability, drivability and reliability is the Hilborn settup.

Just my 2cts.
[ I don't have an opinion on this do I?] (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/w00t.gif)

I'm going driving!

JT

[Andyrew]

Nope, the 914 doesnt need more...

All I REALLY need is some heads...

that would get me 350hp...

BUUUT.... I'd love to run around 500hp.. and I love turbo's... they just sound sick, the power delivery feels awesome (continuous increase in acceleration)

I'll do some more pricing...

If I can get 400hp from my engine without putting more compression, then I'll be happy, for a while. Then i'll want to put a 200 shot or nos or something because some blown chevelle beat me... lol

Andrew

[Mueller]

I like the idea of the EFI and Turbo or Hilborn and EFI......


trying to add turbos and use the Hilborn is a waste of the Hilborns, you really won't be able to see them (huge reason to use them in the 1st place), and no real benifit from the Hilborns that you couldn't get from using an FI manifold such as from a TPI equipped car.

Also with the turbo/Hilborns, you'll want a crossover pipe between the banks to help equilize the charge pressure.

The cleanest install would be 2 turbos with a setup that looks similar to the old Banks turbo systems (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/smile.gif)

[BIGKAT_83]

Andyrew I've bid on 2 different Martin turbo systems that were not as complete as this one and both of them went for over $1000. These were top of the line kits in their day

Bob

[Andyrew]

Well, the turbo system currently is at 510 with 2 days... 500 was my, i'll buy it, no loss to me. price.

Im guessing it will go over 1k... theres 9 bidders currently.. and maybe 15 more like me... lol

Bob, your free to bid on it.. .lol

Mike, As always, your words are true.

[neo914-6]

what's the ID #, you're not counting us snipers? (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/happy11.gif)

Yeah it was financially dangerous talking to the guys a Bauer. MikeP has the "Elmer" syndrome... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/laugh.gif)

[Andyrew]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I didnt want to post it because I wanted it... but realistically its going higher than what I want to pay...

I think it would be sick matched with a throttle body fuel injection system.. you know... one with 4 fuel injectors... eh... 500 bucks and I can build one.

If I had the....

sniping ability!

and permision from dad... lol

[BIGKAT_83]

The Martin system does some interesting things that other systems don't do.
Have you got this one figured out??

Its above what I would want to pay for it to use in a 914. With the setup stock the turbo would be completly out of the engine bay.

Bob

[Andyrew]

The turbo would be out of the engine bay?

I think it may poke out maybe 3 inches... but nothing some sheet metal fixing can do... Check out the attached.


btw.. what does the martin systems do? I dont get it yet....

Andrew

[Andyrew]

pic....

[street legal go-kart]

Andrew,
Did you ever find a casting # on your block?
You got me started on the small block thing again and I was rooting around out in the parts bin. I have a bunch of stuff you might be able to use if you have the right block #.
I also talked to a armenian gentleman from our area who shall remain nameless,
summit part#nal-12496769 w/a hiborn setup good for about 455 hp on his dyno.
I think he said $4000.00 without the injection.
Also a little less pricey summit #nal-24502609 , same setup for intake good for about 395 hp.Think this one w/out intake about $3500.00.
I know this gentleman very well , he has had engines at Indy and Lemans ect,ect.
Very low key , he builds for Ford, Penske and people he likes. No bs kind of guy , the #'s are the #'s.
At 79 years old still in the shop 7-5 m-f.
He taught me all I know about hi/po v 8's and a few things about other engines a well. Very talented with VW water pumpers getting about 300hp out of a scirroco engine on alchohol.
Also he just pm'ed me , both of those summit #'s are for GM crate motors and can be purchased direct at a discount if you know someone at a dealer or a Good wrench certified mech.
The second engine is a ZZ4 , 10:1 aluminum heads , roller cam, hei dist, forged crank ect.
Joe [ops] said he knows a bracket drag racer who has about 125 passes on one with o failures. Pretty killer for under 4 grand.

Back to the shop.

JT

[Andyrew]

cast number was 3970010

4k eh?

Maybe in 4 years when I need an engine rebuild... but I have only 1k or less miles on my engine.

I aint getting a new one. lol.

Let me know what you have in your parts bin, I would definately be interested!

So your saying I can buy an engine with a Hilborn induction setup from summit? Or when you said without the intake, you ment hilborn.... lol

THanks for your info! I'll be saving this thread.

Andrew

[turbo914v8]

Don’t be fooled. That turbo system on e-bay will only net you around 500 hp, it’s not worth the money. This type of turbo system is called a draw through system and will not accept an intercooler essential to running any type of boost above 5psi safely for any length of time. I am currently running a twin turbo FI system in my converted 914 v8, and yes it is mad horsepower at over 1000HP and 1000 ft torque. I can run this set up all day with out problems. The trick is to use adequate intercoolers. At a mere 12 psi, the lowest setting on my waste gate, my motor puts out over 700 hp. More than enough power to put any in their place. I can generate well over 30 psi with the current turbo system, but at 12 psi the motor and turbo system is not working hard at all so I just keep the boost set low at 12 psi fun all day. Don’t think that you will be able to fit a complete turbo\intercooler system in a 914 and keep is stealth. Some of it will protrude somewhere, depending on the setup you choose. I say turbo all the way. You can build a really great turbo system with used parts and make a crazy turbo powered v8 very easily. Infact you could go to your local junkyard and probably find most of what you need. Don’t be discouraged. I had everybody telling me that I would never fit everything in the small 914. Boy were they wrong.

[Dr. Roger]

I'm a numbers guy... and Turbo Paul has some valid points.


This graph appeared in "Battle of the Boost", Hot Rod Magazine in the August 2003 issue. Turbo systems are the clear choice if you are looking to generate usable horsepower between 2500 and 5000 rpm.

Standard X-Y chart

=-)

Roger