What the Fuch? |
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What the Fuch? |
stevegm |
May 21 2020, 06:44 PM
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#1
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
I’m trying to determine some pieces of information related to putting 5-lug Fuchs on a stock-fendered 914. Any help would be appreciated. Here is what I am trying to figure out:
1. What is the largest size wheel that will fit? Both 15” and 16” 2. What is the largest size tire that will fit on the above wheels (without rolling the fender lips or pulling the fenders out)? 3. Do the results of questions 1 & 2 change depending on whether one changes to 5-lug by changing the suspension to 914-6 suspension vs. using drilled rotors such as those sold by PMB? Anybody know? EDIT: 4. Are the 5-lug Fuchs heavier than standard 4-lug Fuchs, etc.? I am wondering if they will over-tire the 4-cylinder, and bog it. Sorry for such detailed questions. I’m just trying to understand what my options are. One idea - If I can’t find a reasonably-priced six suspension, I’m considering using the 5-lug suspension from my original six on my ‘72 four, while the six undergoes extensive rustoration (likely to take years at my pace). |
SirAndy |
May 21 2020, 06:59 PM
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#2
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,636 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
6" with 195 tires. Anything wider and you get into pulling/rolling territory ...
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) |
914Toy |
May 21 2020, 07:28 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 12-November 17 From: Laguna beach Member No.: 21,596 Region Association: Southern California |
I agree with Sir Andy. However if you want a cool looking wider wheel/tire, I have Fuchs 16x7’s front and back with 205x7’s all around. These fit stock fender in front, but do require rolling the upper inner fender lip (with baseball bat against the tire) and pulling carefully (by hand!) the fender out a tad more than just rolling the lips. I had my car raised on my floor jack while making these amateur modifications to the rear fenders.
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mepstein |
May 21 2020, 07:34 PM
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#4
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,271 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
6” with 195x65x15 or 205x60x15. The wheels are very close in weight but the larger the tire, the more weight and just like a bike wheel, it’s the worst place to add it. I think the two different 5 lug conversions are really close in dimensions but quite different in costs. Do you also want to change brake calipers or leave them stock.
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stevegm |
May 21 2020, 08:07 PM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
6" with 195 tires. Anything wider and you get into pulling/rolling territory ... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif) Thanks. That’s exactly what I needed to know. |
stevegm |
May 21 2020, 08:10 PM
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#6
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
I agree with Sir Andy. However if you want a cool looking wider wheel/tire, I have Fuchs 16x7’s front and back with 205x7’s all around. These fit stock fender in front, but do require rolling the upper inner fender lip (with baseball bat against the tire) and pulling carefully (by hand!) the fender out a tad more than just rolling the lips. I had my car raised on my floor jack while making these amateur modifications to the rear fenders. Interesting. I’m tempted. But, I don’t want to roll the fender lips, or make any body changes. And I’m also concerned about over tiring the car. But I’d love 7s. |
stevegm |
May 21 2020, 08:13 PM
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#7
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
6” with 195x65x15 or 205x60x15. The wheels are very close in weight but the larger the tire, the more weight and just like a bike wheel, it’s the worst place to add it. I think the two different 5 lug conversions are really close in dimensions but quite different in costs. Do you also want to change brake calipers or leave them stock. I wonder if I could get 205x60 on my Pedrinis. I’m getting ready to buy tires, and I’d like to buy a tire now for the Pedrinis, that I could later use in the Fuchs. Do you know if the 5-lug conversions have the same offsets, so to speak, as a full original six suspension? I’d like to upgrade the calipers. But I don’t know what I’ll go with. I assume that the clearance matters on the calipers? One idea - if I can’t find a reasonably-priced six suspension, I’m considering using the 5-lug suspension from my original six on my ‘72 four, while the six undergoes extensive rustoration (likely to take years at my pace). |
mepstein |
May 21 2020, 08:19 PM
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#8
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,271 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
6” with 195x65x15 or 205x60x15. The wheels are very close in weight but the larger the tire, the more weight and just like a bike wheel, it’s the worst place to add it. I think the two different 5 lug conversions are really close in dimensions but quite different in costs. Do you also want to change brake calipers or leave them stock. I wonder if I could get 205x60 on my Pedrinis. I’m getting ready to buy tires, and I’d like to buy a tire now for the Pedrinis, that I could later use in the Fuchs. Do you know if the 5-lug conversions have the same offsets, so to speak, as a full original six suspension? I’d like to upgrade the calipers. But I don’t know what I’ll go with. I assume that the clearance matters on the calipers? You can really only upgrade the calipers by using a 911/914-6 front strut and 914-6 calipers on the back. So by the time you do that, you are into it it for more than a couple grand. I can make you up a list of parts needed if you are interested. |
stevegm |
May 21 2020, 08:25 PM
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#9
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
6” with 195x65x15 or 205x60x15. The wheels are very close in weight but the larger the tire, the more weight and just like a bike wheel, it’s the worst place to add it. I think the two different 5 lug conversions are really close in dimensions but quite different in costs. Do you also want to change brake calipers or leave them stock. I wonder if I could get 205x60 on my Pedrinis. I’m getting ready to buy tires, and I’d like to buy a tire now for the Pedrinis, that I could later use in the Fuchs. Do you know if the 5-lug conversions have the same offsets, so to speak, as a full original six suspension? I’d like to upgrade the calipers. But I don’t know what I’ll go with. I assume that the clearance matters on the calipers? You can really only upgrade the calipers by using a 911/914-6 front strut and 914-6 calipers on the back. So by the time you do that, you are into it it for more than a couple grand. I can make you up a list of parts needed if you are interested. My thinking is to rehab the six suspension on my six and put it on my ‘72 four. Then, someday, when the six rustoration is done, put the four suspension back on the ‘72. Under that plan, I’d probably stick with the six calipers, I guess. I’m just now starting to figure it out. So I don’t know exactly what I’m doing (not that I ever really do). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
Mark Henry |
May 22 2020, 05:57 AM
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#10
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
I have 205/60-15 tires on 6" later 020 fuchs. 914-6/911T struts with alfa calipers and the rear is 911 hubs and vented rotors with PMB "V-calipers" modified 914/4 calipers. This rear setup is a lot more coin as you need 911 hubs, stubs, CV's, input shafts and swayaway axles.
The wife's car has 205/55-15 tires on 6" cookies. 914-6/911T struts with M calipers and the rear is stock with PMB re-drilled hubs. For a street car this set-up is better than needed. The weight difference between the 15" 5 bolt and 4 bolt fuchs isn't much, I know the 4 bolt are 13lbs, I can't find the 5 bolt weight right now. Porsche 911 Fuchs Forged 16x6 are 17.0lbs |
roblav1 |
May 22 2020, 07:35 AM
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#11
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: 18-September 12 From: KY Member No.: 14,943 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I think the bottom line question is how badly rusted is your /6?
I've done a couple conversions, one in 2014 and one now. Old 911 parts are getting more difficult to find and prices are getting higher. Rough price swag: Front susp and brakes: $1500 Rear susp, brakes, driveline: $2000 Rims / tires: $2500 And you need some skills, especially at the rear wheel bearings. So, back to your /6... If it's quite rusted, professional repair, paintwork, and engine rebuild will rapidly get you under water in value. It only makes financial sense if you do the time and the rate of your time is free. Your best bet may be take all the suspension, brakes, wheels, axles, flanges off your /6 and install on your 72 car. Then sell the remainder for someone else to build a more real GT with better suspension, brakes, driveline, and real /6 VIN. |
stevegm |
May 22 2020, 08:01 AM
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#12
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
I think the bottom line question is how badly rusted is your /6? I've done a couple conversions, one in 2014 and one now. Old 911 parts are getting more difficult to find and prices are getting higher. Rough price swag: Front susp and brakes: $1500 Rear susp, brakes, driveline: $2000 Rims / tires: $2500 And you need some skills, especially at the rear wheel bearings. So, back to your /6... If it's quite rusted, professional repair, paintwork, and engine rebuild will rapidly get you under water in value. It only makes financial sense if you do the time and the rate of your time is free. Your best bet may be take all the suspension, brakes, wheels, axles, flanges off your /6 and install on your 72 car. Then sell the remainder for someone else to build a more real GT with better suspension, brakes, driveline, and real /6 VIN. Thanks. You make good points. It’s very rusted. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) But I’m keeping it anyway. I’ll restore it, doing much of the work myself, someday. |
stevegm |
May 22 2020, 08:01 AM
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#13
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
I have 205/60-15 tires on 6" later 020 fuchs. 914-6/911T struts with alfa calipers and the rear is 911 hubs and vented rotors with PMB "V-calipers" modified 914/4 calipers. This rear setup is a lot more coin as you need 911 hubs, stubs, CV's, input shafts and swayaway axles. The wife's car has 205/55-15 tires on 6" cookies. 914-6/911T struts with M calipers and the rear is stock with PMB re-drilled hubs. For a street car this set-up is better than needed. The weight difference between the 15" 5 bolt and 4 bolt fuchs isn't much, I know the 4 bolt are 13lbs, I can't find the 5 bolt weight right now. Porsche 911 Fuchs Forged 16x6 are 17.0lbs Thanks. This is helpful. |
dr914@autoatlanta.com |
May 22 2020, 08:09 AM
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#14
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 7,856 Joined: 3-January 07 From: atlanta georgia Member No.: 7,418 Region Association: None |
I’m trying to determine some pieces of information related to putting 5-lug Fuchs on a stock-fendered 914. Any help would be appreciated. Here is what I am trying to figure out: 1. What is the largest size wheel that will fit? Both 15” and 16” 6 inch 2. What is the largest size tire that will fit on the above wheels (without rolling the fender lips or pulling the fenders out)? 205/60 or for the 16 205/55 3. Do the results of questions 1 & 2 change depending on whether one changes to 5-lug by changing the suspension to 914-6 suspension vs. using drilled rotors such as those sold by PMB? same for the drilled or the conversion. Conversion is pretty good now as it uses genuine 914-6 rear rotors and studded hubs Anybody know? EDIT: 4. Are the 5-lug Fuchs heavier than standard 4-lug Fuchs, etc.? I am wondering if they will over-tire the 4-cylinder, and bog it. Sorry for such detailed questions. I’m just trying to understand what my options are. One idea - If I can’t find a reasonably-priced six suspension, I’m considering using the 5-lug suspension from my original six on my ‘72 four, while the six undergoes extensive rustoration (likely to take years at my pace). |
stevegm |
May 22 2020, 09:50 AM
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#15
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,111 Joined: 14-July 14 From: North Carolina Member No.: 17,633 Region Association: South East States |
If 6” with 195x65x15 or 205x60x15, will fit under the stock fenders, will the same size tires, but 16” - i.e., 6” with 195x65x16 or 205x60x16, - also fit? I would think not, right?
If that is the case (that 15” or 16” makes a difference), I need to first decide 15” or 16” it seems. |
Mark Henry |
May 22 2020, 10:22 AM
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#16
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
All the 914's outer panels were somewhat hand fitted, some are tight on fender clearance, others have no problems.
My '74 had no problem with the 205's, the left side I have a 1/4" and the other 1/2" clearance, with no fender rolling. Only way to know for sure is to stick them on. |
mepstein |
May 22 2020, 10:41 AM
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#17
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,271 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
If 6” with 195x65x15 or 205x60x15, will fit under the stock fenders, will the same size tires, but 16” - i.e., 6” with 195x65x16 or 205x60x16, - also fit? I would think not, right? If that is the case (that 15” or 16” makes a difference), I need to first decide 15” or 16” it seems. Remember that if you keep the width and aspect ratio the same, 16” tires will have a larger diameter than 15”. To get the same diameter, you need lower profile. It depends on the look you want. Also, 16” Fuchs are quite a bit heavier than 15”. More than the 1” difference would lead you to believe. |
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