Once every 15 starts of so starter grinds like the engine is already started |
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Once every 15 starts of so starter grinds like the engine is already started |
zfisher6164 |
Jul 17 2020, 09:27 AM
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#1
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 19-January 19 From: California Member No.: 22,809 Region Association: None |
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brant |
Jul 17 2020, 09:39 AM
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#2
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,612 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
do you run a high torque starter?
many of the cheaper high torque starters damage the flywheel because the Bendix depth is incorrect. Can be fixed with a spacer behind the starter however the damage to the starter ring gear is already done usually. it sounds like your flywheel ring gear or starter Bendix drive gear are missing a tooth. look in the window to the transmission bell housing.. you should be able to see a portion of the top edge of the flywheel. and rotate it around to inspect what you can see before pulling the drive train. change the starter if it is causing the damage or else it could potentially damage the new flywheel/ring gear also |
Jett |
Jul 17 2020, 09:43 AM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 27-July 14 From: Seattle Member No.: 17,686 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
+1. ... nice looking car!
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zfisher6164 |
Jul 18 2020, 11:07 AM
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#4
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 19-January 19 From: California Member No.: 22,809 Region Association: None |
Stock starter and I think I agree with you about a tooth missing, I will look through the timing hole, (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif) should have thought of that, thanks
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adolimpio |
Jul 20 2020, 04:59 PM
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#5
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Art Group: Members Posts: 180 Joined: 10-March 10 From: Greenwood SC Member No.: 11,449 Region Association: South East States |
Mine does the same thing. Stock starter, no missing teeth, but it has not been bad enough for me to invest a lot of time.
However, it does seem to happen at times when embarrassment is maximized. |
Cupomeat |
Jul 20 2020, 05:55 PM
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#6
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missing my NY 914 in VA Group: Members Posts: 1,336 Joined: 26-November 07 From: Oakton VA Member No.: 8,376 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I've seen this, the solenoid is no good and hangs while bringing the gear to the flywheel, thus starting it spinning before engaging.
I'd swap out the starter unless you see something else not reported. Good luck! |
IronHillRestorations |
Jul 21 2020, 05:29 AM
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#7
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I. I. R. C. Group: Members Posts: 6,714 Joined: 18-March 03 From: West TN Member No.: 439 Region Association: None |
Pull the starter and bench test it to make sure the solenoid is working right. You'll also have a chance to inspect the flywheel
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Spoke |
Jul 21 2020, 06:15 AM
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#8
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Jerry Group: Members Posts: 6,972 Joined: 29-October 04 From: Allentown, PA Member No.: 3,031 Region Association: None |
I've seen this, the solenoid is no good and hangs while bringing the gear to the flywheel, thus starting it spinning before engaging. I'd swap out the starter unless you see something else not reported. Good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) I was thinking the same thing. |
aexe |
Jan 27 2021, 09:10 PM
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#9
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 28-December 18 From: San Francisco Member No.: 22,756 Region Association: Northern California |
I have this exact same issue! Every random number of starts, the starter grinds like the engine is already running, and then the next start or two is back to normal. My starter also was failing to disengage for 1-2 seconds after the motor had actually started, and both were trying to turn the flywheel resulting in quite the odd sound. I replaced the ignition switch, which didn't fix the problem and I decided that the starter should be replaced and in August 2020, I put in a new Bosch SR-17-X from Pelican.
However, even with the new starter the same issues continued! It wasn't a big deal, or so I thought. And then yesterday, I was driving across a bridge and suddenly the starter engaged while I was doing 55! Stayed on for 5-8 seconds and made a horrendous noise and then quit. I was startled and there was no shoulder and it was raining. I kept going to get to work. Once I was safely in the parking lot, I shut the car off and then tried to start it again. Now EVERY time you try, the starter grinds like when you try to start the car when the engine is already running. And it doesn't turn the flywheel or start the car. I am assuming that my quite new starter has no teeth left on it's gear. I did push start her and make it home after work. Love to hear any thoughts or suggestions... |
brant |
Jan 28 2021, 07:45 AM
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#10
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,612 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Your flywheel ring gear is most likely toast now.
You will have to pull the trans to change the flywheel or at least ring gear Don’t forget to set the crank shaft end play when you change out the flywheel |
aexe |
Jan 28 2021, 01:14 PM
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#11
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 28-December 18 From: San Francisco Member No.: 22,756 Region Association: Northern California |
That's the other scenario I guess. Either the bendix gear on the starter is chewed or the flywheel ring gear is.
What I really want to know, especially as I replace these things, is WHY the starter engaged while driving. |
aexe |
Feb 5 2021, 02:47 PM
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#12
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Newbie Group: Members Posts: 10 Joined: 28-December 18 From: San Francisco Member No.: 22,756 Region Association: Northern California |
Here's the starter gear... The flywheel looked ok from what I could see. I read somewhere, and the logic seemed sound to me, that you could put the car in 5th and turn the raised rear wheels and the flywheel would rotate. However, in my case, just the opposite wheel would turn. Does this opposite wheel need to be fixed in order for the flywheel to turn? Just now thinking about this.
Attached thumbnail(s) |
wndsrfr |
Feb 5 2021, 05:01 PM
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#13
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Yep, just jack up one side of the car, chock the rear wheel that's on the ground and then you can rotate the engine pushing on the raised wheel....
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adolimpio |
Mar 1 2021, 05:30 PM
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#14
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Art Group: Members Posts: 180 Joined: 10-March 10 From: Greenwood SC Member No.: 11,449 Region Association: South East States |
I found the source of my issue. Like the thread says, the starter grinds every 15 or so starts. I finally had the opportunity to pull the tranny and found what you see below.
Is there any way to recover from this, or is this flywheel history. The teeth look perfect except for those in this area, about 2 inches long. |
jaredmcginness |
Mar 3 2021, 10:58 AM
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#15
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... Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 12-June 19 From: Baltimore Member No.: 23,209 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
My inclination is to start looking for a replacement flywheel.
I'm sure there are plenty floating around here and a quick WTB ad would get you set up. My concern would be any repair lasting after repeated use. |
iankarr |
Mar 3 2021, 11:20 AM
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#16
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The wrencher formerly known as Cuddy_K Group: Members Posts: 2,471 Joined: 22-May 15 From: Heber City, UT Member No.: 18,749 Region Association: Intermountain Region |
Time for a new flywheel. Whee! At least you discovered the problem. You can get one for about 300 iirc. While you’re in there you might want to change the clutch. If using a hi torque starter, make sure you shim it so it mates with the flywheel correctly.
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wndsrfr |
Mar 3 2021, 01:26 PM
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#17
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 30-April 09 From: Rescue, Virginia Member No.: 10,318 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
Here's the starter gear... The flywheel looked ok from what I could see. I read somewhere, and the logic seemed sound to me, that you could put the car in 5th and turn the raised rear wheels and the flywheel would rotate. However, in my case, just the opposite wheel would turn. Does this opposite wheel need to be fixed in order for the flywheel to turn? Just now thinking about this. Something is wrong with this. There should not be any mark on the pinion gear nose. There is an alignment issue here in which the nose of the pinion gear is too close to the flywheel. Look carefully at the mounting surface...and get another Bosch starter. Paint the nose of the pinion gear, install & do several starts then inspect.... |
brant |
Mar 3 2021, 02:24 PM
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#18
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 11,612 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Colorado Member No.: 47 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
Here's the starter gear... The flywheel looked ok from what I could see. I read somewhere, and the logic seemed sound to me, that you could put the car in 5th and turn the raised rear wheels and the flywheel would rotate. However, in my case, just the opposite wheel would turn. Does this opposite wheel need to be fixed in order for the flywheel to turn? Just now thinking about this. Something is wrong with this. There should not be any mark on the pinion gear nose. There is an alignment issue here in which the nose of the pinion gear is too close to the flywheel. Look carefully at the mounting surface...and get another Bosch starter. Paint the nose of the pinion gear, install & do several starts then inspect.... I'm going to guess this is the replica high torque starter from ebay for 100 they require a shim to get the depth correct and over extend into the flywheel without the shim |
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