Color matching vs “correct” paint code based approach Options

[Tdskip]

So while I was taking the doorhandle off the Arizona car it struck me just how pretty the Laguna blue paint was from the factory, and also that it is more muted than modern paint formulations.

That has me wondering if I’ll get a more original looking paint if I bring the door and get that paint matched from the inside factory paint versus going off a paint code. Will clot matching the inner door result in a more original pastel/muted/not overly shiny paint?

I talked to a paint guy and he said the moderns cleats are all so shiny it is hard to keep the finished job from being so modern looking.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[bbrock]

Can't give much advice but when I was shopping paint, I learned the PPG formula for my paint code (L96D) was different for Volkswagen than Porsche. I had samples of both mixed and tried them. I'm almost certain the VW formula was closest to original but the Porsche mix was a deeper, richer color that I really loved. So, yeah, mixing by paint code isn't a guaranteed match.

[IronHillRestorations]

Single stage paint, for non-metallic colors, will look more period correct that some of the newer two stage paint with "wet look" clearcoat

[roblav1]

Can't give much advice but when I was shopping paint, I learned the PPG formula for my paint code (L96D) was different for Volkswagen than Porsche. I had samples of both mixed and tried them. I'm almost certain the VW formula was closest to original but the Porsche mix was a deeper, richer color that I really loved. So, yeah, mixing by paint code isn't a guaranteed match.

I found the same thing with PPG. My Bahia Red 914 color is a different formulation than the 1969 911 Bahia Red I eventually chose. Richer looking to my eyes.

[Tdskip]

Thanks for the responses, appreciate the feedback.

Sounds like the paint, not just the clear, can be the issue.

[Sway Bar]

The real issue is that the paint technology and chemical compositions has changed (for the better??) so much over the years. A lot of the paints/clears are obviously now based for durability, ease of application, environment etc.

As mentioned the single stage paints for non metallic will get you close. A lot of 2 stage are now water based as well.

When cost isn't an issue this is when the painter will tweak mixes and spray on samples to see results. Of course most of us just want to buy the can and get to it in a reasonable costly manner (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Tdskip]

Single stage based on color matching the inner door sounds like the ticket.

[flyer86d]

We had this issue when trying to duplicate the original color of my 1968 911 which was dark green metallic. It’s a less than 1% color and it changed in 1970 or so. The car had been repainted maroon and then black thru the years and there was little remaining of the factory paint. A friend had the old Porsche color chip book with the big chips that the painter used to color match. We also found a 3” by 12” section of the inner sill which was covered by carpet originally that the paint was intact. The toughest part to duplicate was the metallic flake that was used in the 1960s which has much smaller and less pronounced flake than modern colors.

The painter got a excellent match and the color is frankly, stunning. I can’t wait to show the finished product. Then onto the 914-6...

Charlie

[larryM]

original paint was enamel & it often exhibited hint of "orange peel"

at the beginning of the day - the key to a color match is now in getting the base-coat "right"; then attack the clearcoat with whatever means suits to try to match the oem enamel "look"

- that means hours of experimentation by the painter cuz we don't know what the end result will be 'til we go thru ALL the steps to final polish ( @ $100/hr or so shop-rates ) - so it's not surprising that we hear of $25K paint jobs on custom & restored old cars at Hot August Nights etc

nice thing about enamel is/was you could color-sand, buff & polish it many times to bring back the color & it was thick enuf to tolerate that (3-coats in repaint was not unusual practice) (1-coat would sometimes do for a car going to the used lot)

"wet look" came in as the gotta-have-it craze via japan in the '90's - a.k.a "the offshore look" when i went thru PPG paint school back in 2002 - painting cars then was all about faster production times & thru-put in the bodyshop; so paint was formulated to get there

nobody then much cared about reproducing the look of old orange-peel enamel cuz virtually nobady wanted it

p.s. - you can maybe still find some old formulations in UK - i see adverts/links for lacquer & enamel on Brit sites - dunno if you could actually import it tho

due to environmental laws now, we'd be hard put to find a "matching" paint -

last available afik was PPG Deltron acrylic enamel which the hot-rod set valued greatly all the way to it's demise - the basic idea then was "pile it on" and then "color sand it to baby smooth" (Deltron brand survives as acrylic urethane clearcoat)

later we used the same "pile it on" idea with clearcoat of which there are/were both high solids & "regular (thin)" formulations - you will quickly understand that if you spray the 2 versions (different technique required)

of course - we can never color sand any metallic & get any sort of match cuz it flattens the particles that are "standing up"

[StarBear]

Can't give much advice but when I was shopping paint, I learned the PPG formula for my paint code (L96D) was different for Volkswagen than Porsche. I had samples of both mixed and tried them. I'm almost certain the VW formula was closest to original but the Porsche mix was a deeper, richer color that I really loved. So, yeah, mixing by paint code isn't a guaranteed match.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) In my experience, you are spot on, @bbrock . I have the original VW and Porsche mix formulas for L64K Zambezi Green (now on Jeff Bowlsby's site) as I worked for BASF at the time. The VW is more accurate, as bodies made by VW/Karmann at the time.

[Tdskip]

Thanks for the discussion and experiences. Some of you guys better post your car is here so we can see them soon!

Sounds like the VW colors are the ones to focus on.

[scallyk9]

I had a lots of problems matching color with the relatively obscure Porsche Lava Gray Metallic on my '09 Cayenne Turbo S. One company wasn't even close, than another brand was in the ballpark but the body shop had to add some magenta-ish tint to get it right. The '09 has modern multi-stage paint so I had thought it would be easier. Nothing beats pre-painting swatches with the same mixture and comparing to the existing paint under different lighting just prior to spraying.

[DRPHIL914]

my painter ordered paint samples from 3 different companies for my L99k copper metallic, and the big guns were not even close off their mix, PPG, Sherwin-Williams and one other they were either too dark, too much metallic flake, or too orange. but one , Limco(not sure is spelling)considered a mid level quality paint, was absolutely spot on for color, depth, hue, metallic etc when he shot samples to compare to the original still in my trunk area, so that is what we went with and the color turned out super. it might not be the most expensive paint job but it looks great . point is you might be better off with trying to match it or try different suppliers, and an excel end painter just may get the perfect mix with some time and effort, but it’s almost impossibly to get a new modern paint to come out looking exactly as our cars came off the line from Porsche’/VW 50 years ago.

more people here have a lot more experience and knowledge on this subject but that is my experience in this arena. I’ve here these metallics are the hardest to get to come out uniform, even. personally my car got 4 coats of base and 3 of clear. it’s really beautiful, but probably won’t last 20 years. maybe with good care and a clear bra on front it will, time will tell.

but dont be in hurry , get some samples shot and observe in different light.

i have to say one of my favorite modern car colors is the Ferrari/Maserati Ocean blue Metallic. it’s simply stunning and looks so different in different lighting conditions i just don’t know how they got it to be so perfect and even, it i love it and if i ever do another 914 project that has to be rescued and isn’t original i think it would be awesome on a 914!

good luck and show lots of pictures when you get to this point!!

[larryM]

I’ve here these metallics are the hardest to get to come out uniform, even.

that's an understatement

a bunch of skill-set factors involved in how metallics "look" - gun psi, direction of pattern, drying/setup time depending on reducers & whether the painter lays it on "wet" or ?? , etc etc

imho - if it's a repaint, just go for the best closest color to the oem you seek & forget about it - WHO is ever gonna know??

- it's not like we are gonna park a newly painted 914 next to an never painted preservation car (well polished) & count points-off at the concours -

most concours judges have ZERO knowledge about such and 2X-ZERO knowledge about 914's - they only want to see CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN

a few yrs back a concours judge was apoplectic cuz my "rear bumper" paint had some minor orange peel - (i got the 1st trophy anyway)

[DRPHIL914]

I’ve here these metallics are the hardest to get to come out uniform, even.

that's an understatement

a bunch of skill-set factors involved in how metallics "look" - gun psi, direction of pattern, drying/setup time depending on reducers & whether the painter lays it on "wet" or ?? , etc etc

imho - if it's a repaint, just go for the best closest color to the oem you seek & forget about it - WHO is ever gonna know??

- it's not like we are gonna park a newly painted 914 next to an never painted preservation car (well polished) & count points-off at the concours -

most concours judges have ZERO knowledge about such and 2X-ZERO knowledge about 914's - they only want to see CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN

a few yrs back a concours judge was apoplectic cuz my "rear bumper" paint had some minor orange peel - (i got the 1st trophy anyway)

so true, same with door gaps etc , stupid to judge a car like that thinking that it was perfect coming out of factory with even gaps or no orange peel. After my experience at a couple other shows and this last year’s Werks - well thst was a joke, i actually would have preferred a more traditional judging than what they did, and then putting a stock 914 2.0 ‘75 against a ‘70 914/6 with no explanation of what the judging criteria was - joke. at least with let’s say a PCA concours you were at you know clean is the thing.
just going to the C&C event and enjoy taking with people about the car and 914 history and so fun to hear others stories .

[Tdskip]

Thanks for all of the responses.


Personally I just really like the original muted color...

[DRPHIL914]

Thanks for all of the responses.


Personally I just really like the original muted color...

you are going to do your original color? i wasn’t old enough to really remember what they looked like as far as how shiny, but you can get close, few would know the difference.
but what ever you like. that’s one of my favorite Porsche Blue colors.