No brakes!, Brake pedal went to the floor Options

[mburkhart]

I'll throw out another possibility....

One day while while driving the 6 conversion in my avatar, I came up to a stop and much to my chagrin I discovered I had virtually no brakes. Fortunately, my emergency brakes worked quite well and I was able to stop. (BTW...when driving my older cars I ALWAYS slow down early and give the brakes a little test tap. It's a habit I developed early in life when driving another car that experienced brake failure.)

Anyway, as I sat waiting over an hour for a AAA tow for some reason I hit the brake pedal. I had brakes! I drove the short distance home and as I walked around the car I could feel the heat coming off the right front wheel. The right front caliper was dragging so badly that the fluid was boiling ..causing a loss of braking. I replaced the rubber brake hoses (in case they were collapsed) and with a set of rebuilt calipers a few days later I was back in business!

That may not be your problem. But, worth a check especially if you aren't seeing any fluid loss.

Any idea how to check for this without going out for another scary drive? This sounds like a possibility since the brakes went out about 15 minutes into my leisurely drive. I checked the pedals for fluid yesterday and the brake pedal had pressure (and no fluid leaking)...

[VaccaRabite]

I'll throw out another possibility....

Anyway, as I sat waiting over an hour for a AAA tow for some reason I hit the brake pedal. I had brakes! I drove the short distance home and as I walked around the car I could feel the heat coming off the right front wheel. The right front caliper was dragging so badly that the fluid was boiling ..causing a loss of braking. I replaced the rubber brake hoses (in case they were collapsed) and with a set of rebuilt calipers a few days later I was back in business!

Any idea how to check for this without going out for another scary drive? This sounds like a possibility since the brakes went out about 15 minutes into my leisurely drive. I checked the pedals for fluid yesterday and the brake pedal had pressure (and no fluid leaking)...

That one is easy.
Look at your pads and see if one pair is wearing WAY FASTER then the other. The four front pads should be similar, and the 4 rear pads should be similar. Also, if pads are stuck on the rotor, the rotor is probably also worn more too, if not scored and warped.

Zach

[mepstein]

Did you pull the carpet and the pedal plywood and stick your hand around the pedal assembly. Mine wasn't much but it was wet. Nothing under the car or on the ground.

[mburkhart]

Did you pull the carpet and the pedal plywood and stick your hand around the pedal assembly. Mine wasn't much but it was wet. Nothing under the car or on the ground.

I pulled back the carpet but didn't remove the plywood. I'll check that today.

Update: Getting that board out is impossible! Feels like I'm playing one of those puzzle games trying to figure out the right angle to get it out. I'll have to do some research to see what else needs removing before it will come out. I was able to pull it back far enough to take a picture and get my hand back there though. The pedals are dry as a bone.

[mepstein]

Did you pull the carpet and the pedal plywood and stick your hand around the pedal assembly. Mine wasn't much but it was wet. Nothing under the car or on the ground.

I pulled back the carpet but didn't remove the plywood. I'll check that today.

Update: Getting that board out is impossible! Feels like I'm playing one of those puzzle games trying to figure out the right angle to get it out. I'll have to do some research to see what else needs removing before it will come out. I was able to pull it back far enough to take a picture and get my hand back there though. The pedals are dry as a bone.

pull the rod off the bottom of the gas pedal and the board should wiggle out.

[Craigers17]

I did this a few months ago. I used this advice by McMark from another post:

1. Pop the throttle pedal off of the pushrod, so it can be pulled towards the rear of the car.
2. Depress the clutch pedal about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way down.
3. Route the board over both the clutch pedal and the brake pedal in the same motion (or close enough)

It takes awhile to figure out. But once you've done it a few times the 'right' way it becomes pretty easy. ...end quote

...hope this helps...worked for me.

[mburkhart]

Well it looks like the caliper is the culprit. Brake pressure felt normal when I backed the car out of the garage. I pulled both front tires and found the driver side caliper was seized and the pads were tight against the rotor like billh1963 described.

I think I'm going to replace both front calipers/pads/soft lines. I will also take a look at the rear calipers and make sure they're still functioning correctly.

[bdstone914]

@mburkhart
post='2850680' date='Sep 12 2020, 01:57 PM']
Well it looks like the caliper is the culprit. Brake pressure felt normal when I backed the car out of the garage. I pulled both front tires and found the driver side caliper was seized and the pads were tight against the rotor like billh1963 described.

I think I'm going to replace both front calipers/pads/soft lines. I will also take a look at the rear calipers and make sure they're still functioning correctly.
[/quote]

A siezed caliper would not explain the pedal going to the floor. I say it is still the master if no other external leak can be found.

[Mikey914]

I know we are making more now and may be able to locate a straggler. Call the office Monday and Kinzie will be able to tell you if I found one (I'll be at the day job shortly for a few days. I'll hit the shop on the way out).

As far as failure. If there are not any apparent leaks, it's an internal failure. Also when you install don;t pump the pedal all the way to the floor until you have pressure (then you shouldn't be able to). Doing so can damage the internal seal.

[stugray]

I'll throw out another possibility....

One day while while driving the 6 conversion in my avatar, I came up to a stop and much to my chagrin I discovered I had virtually no brakes. Fortunately, my emergency brakes worked quite well and I was able to stop. (BTW...when driving my older cars I ALWAYS slow down early and give the brakes a little test tap. It's a habit I developed early in life when driving another car that experienced brake failure.)

Anyway, as I sat waiting over an hour for a AAA tow for some reason I hit the brake pedal. I had brakes! I drove the short distance home and as I walked around the car I could feel the heat coming off the right front wheel. The right front caliper was dragging so badly that the fluid was boiling ..causing a loss of braking. I replaced the rubber brake hoses (in case they were collapsed) and with a set of rebuilt calipers a few days later I was back in business!

That may not be your problem. But, worth a check especially if you aren't seeing any fluid loss.

"The right front caliper was dragging so badly "

This was my first thought. I have had it happen to me.
A dragging caliper will overheat the brake fluid, boiling it and creating a big "Air Bubble" in the lines.

[stugray]

[quote name='bdstone914' date='Sep 12 2020, 06:50 PM' post='2850730']
@mburkhart
post='2850680' date='Sep 12 2020, 01:57 PM']
Well it looks like the caliper is the culprit. Brake pressure felt normal when I backed the car out of the garage. I pulled both front tires and found the driver side caliper was seized and the pads were tight against the rotor like billh1963 described.

I think I'm going to replace both front calipers/pads/soft lines. I will also take a look at the rear calipers and make sure they're still functioning correctly.
[/quote]

A siezed caliper would not explain the pedal going to the floor. I say it is still the master if no other external leak can be found.
[/quote]


"A siezed caliper would not explain the pedal going to the floor. "

Sorry, but this is false.
A dragging caliper will overheat that caliper and boil the brake fluid creating a large "air" bubble in the lines.

It has happened to me more than once.

This is usually not the caliper's fault, but the flex lies to the caliper.
They "swell" internally blocking flow and not letting the caliper release.

[sixnotfour]

Sorry, but this is false.
A dragging caliper will overheat that caliper and boil the brake fluid creating a large "air" bubble in the lines.

It has happened to me more than once.

Old brake fluid increases the diagnoses..

[porschetub]

As far as failure. If there are not any apparent leaks, it's an internal failure. Also when you install don;t pump the pedal all the way to the floor until you have pressure (then you shouldn't be able to). Doing so can damage the internal seal.
[/quote]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) most likely the fluid is leaking past the seals in the m/c,had this happen years ago with a air-cooled beetle m/c ...took a while to work out,fitted a NOS ATE kit to it and all was good,I wouldn't normally do this on a road car but it was on my fun offroader.
Sounds like the OP is up for some brake work.