New Porsche Classic Catalog Options

[Unobtanium-inc]

Anyone else get their hands on one? I got mine today, will peruse and report back, it looks slick though! Hoping they have some 914 stuff in there.

[Mueller]

I have 1 through 5, will need to go by the dealership this week for number 6.

Worth having, some interesting articles and pictures.

[Jake Raby]

2/3 of the Porsche Classic parts I received last month for a big bore 356 engine I am building for Mr. Collier were made in China.. Proudly wearing "Made in China" along with the factory parts insignia.
I documented them, and then threw them in the garbage.

[mepstein]

2/3 of the Porsche Classic parts I received last month for a big bore 356 engine I am building for Mr. Collier were made in China.. Proudly wearing "Made in China" along with the factory parts insignia.
I documented them, and then threw them in the garbage.

Yea, it’s too bad that Porsche does what a lot of companies do and just sticks their name on most any part. They obviously don’t use them for factory restorations or they would realize they were selling junk.

[Superhawk996]

Hate to say it but the truth is the Industrialized Western nations are no longer interested in manufacturing. Especially so for commodity items. Get used to it.

Even the DoD defense contractors are forced to source parts from China even though contracts specifically. Exemptions are rampant.

Things like simple brass or cast iron plumbing fittings are no longer made in US. Instead a US company like Parker is given the exemption to source them out of thier China facilities.

Porsche parts are but a symptom of the disease.

[mepstein]

Hate to say it but the truth is the Industrialized Western nations are no longer interested in manufacturing. Especially so for commodity items. Get used to it.

Even the DoD defense contractors are forced to source parts from China even though contracts specifically. Exemptions are rampant.

Things like simple brass or cast iron plumbing fittings are no longer made in US. Instead a US company like Parker is given the exemption to source them out of thier China facilities.

Porsche parts are but a symptom of the disease.

China can make good parts but companies like Porsche can’t just place an order and expect factory spec parts to show up.

[Jake Raby]

Get used to it.

Nope, never will. I refuse to compromise, and just accept what can be bought off the shelf. I am currently building two engines with 100% NOS internal components, which is a challenge. Since I build all the Aircooled engines here personally these days, I can take the extra time to do this.
The race to the bottom has never been so competitive before.

[73-914]

If you STOP buying their "Made in China" junk, they will get the message

[Jake Raby]

If you STOP buying their "Made in China" junk, they will get the message

Exactly.. But people won't because "its cheap" and because "its good enough".

Don't get me wrong... There are times when I buy raw items made overseas, then finish the machine work in USA. They suck with finish work.

[914werke]

I have a bunch of these volumes it always struck me as curious as to how or why they chose to reproduce specific (914) parts?
I have a hard time believing there is a high demand for many of the parts that are showing up as the 1st to be reproduced.
To the topic of MADE IN AMERICA that is a topic fraught with political overtones ...
I learned never to gripe about a thing w/o offering an alternative

[Jake Raby]

I have a bunch of these volumes it always struck me as curious as to how or why they chose to reproduce specific (914) parts?
I have a hard time believing there is a high demand for many of the parts that are showing up as the 1st to be reproduced.
To the topic of MADE IN AMERICA that is a topic fraught with political overtones ...
I learned never to gripe about a thing w/o offering an alternative

Yeah, it turns political real quick.

[Superhawk996]

My intent and post isn't meant to stir up a political conversation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

As stated previously the responsibility is on Porsche for sourcing and quality control. China is a tricky country to source parts from. There are vendors that are top notch in all that they do.

However, there are also many bad vendors that have state of the art equipment that they will show to purchasing and to engineers visiting. That equipment never gets used. They really make your parts out of a different facility on equipment that would make you laugh, and have no quality control. Buyer beware. It's up to the OEM to know the difference.

My post was simply meant to say that the current state of affairs is here to stay. Get used to seeing OEM Porsche parts made in China.

[Mikey914]

Made in Germany vs made in China, the politics are the same they are imports. I personally orefer to make my own parts, but if the next choice is one of the above it would be Germany.

If you want to command a premium as a Genuine Factory part the QC and time it takes to uphold the standard has to be there to get the premium that is commanded. Pretty packaging and catalogs are nice, but they have cheapened the brand by cutting corners. Its actually sad.i personally hope they will uphold the standards they were known for in the past, but when the supply chain is filled with *poor quality " parts regardless of where they are from, it only dilutes the value of purchasing from the dealer.

[Unobtanium-inc]

The main complaint I've heard from people is when they pay what think is a premium for what they think will be an OEM part, only to get the same thing they could have gotten from another vendor with a new label, sometimes covering up the original label. Another time is when you order the more expensive part, thinking it's OEM, but it's a repro. One trick some vendors use is they sell OEM brand, so it's not actually OEM to the car, but the brand name, neat trick, right? Another time I paid a premium from a BIRD vendor for BOSCH 911 tail lights thinking they would come in yellow BOSCH boxes. They didn't, they came in plain white boxes with no name. I asked about this and they said the tail lights were made in the same factory in the Czech Republic as the real ones. What? What?

[Superhawk996]

I asked about this and they said the tail lights were made in the same factory in the Czech Republic as the real ones. What? What?

Very well may be true. Now it comes down to how much you (or your customers) value a yellow box with BOSCH imprinted on it?

Not making fun of it. In some cases, that value may be substantial. Other times, it's just a box.

Free market is a fickle thing. I like vintage stuff. You'd be amazed what some guys will pay for an old ratted out tube amp or a guitar pickup simply becuase it was signed inside by some old lady that used to work on the Fender assembly line back in the day and they swear that they can hear a difference in those amps or pickups. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

If it fits properly, and works properly, is that good enough? In some cases yes, some cases no. Fickle indeed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

[rjames]

Made in Germany vs made in China, the politics are the same they are imports.

I guess it depends on what you mean by 'politics'. As we all know, the main reason the parts can be made cheaper in China is because of the poor labor conditions that we're willing to support in order to save a buck.

[Jake Raby]

Historically people have considered the Genuine Porsche parts to be the definition of quality. When I restored my 356C in 2010 every single part that I ordered from the dealer, or Stoddard said Made in Germany right on it. I think people expect a Genuine Porsche part to be made in Germany; not China. If you want China junk, you can buy that from the parts peddlers on eBay or the people that have made a business of being copycats.

That's my point..

The engine I'm building now simply cannot have a single one of these Chinese components fitted to it.. So I am restoring the old parts, and threw the other stuff away. I had to buy a Cohline hose fabrication set up (2500 bucks) just so I could make the oil hoses that were Chinese offerings. The hoses are now made in USA.

Nothing Chinese inside this one... The heads used to be 14" square chunks of billet aluminum.

[Superhawk996]

Historically people have considered the Genuine Porsche parts to be the definition of quality.

I had to buy a Cohline hose fabrication set up (2500 bucks) just so I could make the oil hoses that were Chinese offerings. The hoses are now made in USA.

Nothing Chinese inside this one... The heads used to be 14" square chunks of billet aluminum.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) For that you have my utmost respect. Well done.

Here's the tricky question. If it were to be made in China to Porsche's historical quality standards does the made in China label affect anything?

The engineer in me says absolutely not. The vintage purist in me says you're doing the right thing.

Let's not gloss over 1970's West German quality wasn't the model of quality control, and definately wouldn't hold up to modern six sigma standards.

[914_teener]

Historically people have considered the Genuine Porsche parts to be the definition of quality.

I had to buy a Cohline hose fabrication set up (2500 bucks) just so I could make the oil hoses that were Chinese offerings. The hoses are now made in USA.

Nothing Chinese inside this one... The heads used to be 14" square chunks of billet aluminum.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) For that you have my utmost respect. Well done.

Here's the tricky question. If it were to be made in China to Porsche's historical quality standards does the made in China label affect anything?

The engineer in me says absolutely not. The vintage purist in me says you're doing the right thing.

Let's not gloss over 1970's West German quality wasn't the model of quality control, and definately wouldn't hold up to modern six sigma standards.

Wait a minute....I'm an engineer too.

First what DoD contracts are being fufilled overseas? They must meet certain criteria to do that...and it is a very high bar.

Second: Six Sigma is DPPM and is process driven (statistiscally stable and with enough sampling to be measured or CPK). Very difficult to do with a low volume and variable processes and not stable demand to get a six sigma standard deviation. That gets thrown around with not a lot of people understanding what it even means.

Given everthing is equal...and it's not, I think what Jake is doing is great and I think very few people appreciate the skills required to make anything now days and want most everything cheap and fast without valuating what it really takes to make something.

Those that do, don't mind paying for it.

[Superhawk996]

First what DoD contracts are being fufilled overseas? They must meet certain criteria to do that...and it is a very high bar.



Second: Six Sigma is DPPM and is process driven (statistiscally stable and with enough sampling to be measured or CPK). Very difficult to do with a low volume and variable processes and not stable demand to get a six sigma standard deviation. That gets thrown around with not a lot of people understanding what it even means.


Given everthing is equal...and it's not, I think what Jake is doing is great and I think very few people appreciate the skills required to make anything now days and want most everything cheap and fast without valuating what it really takes to make something.

First point:

I haven't worked defense since 2011 but it was rampant on JLTV program. Just try to find US sourced commodity hardware. Based on my personal observed experience, the bar wasn't that high. Ultimately, the contracts went to a US companies, but the hardware itself was not of US origin. May be a bit of a rethink according to the article below. I wouldn't hold my breath. No one is going to tool up some little US made brass pipe fitting that is a commodity for the rest of the market and can be had at Home Depot for $0.79 because it is made in China. If they did tool it up for US production in low volume primarily for DoD use, we would be back to the proverbial $600 toilet seat.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-mili...a-idUSKCN1MC275

Second:
Agreed. My point was that when 914 was in production, it's supply chain parts from W. Germany wouln't have met six sigma. Didn't mean to imply it would pertain to reproduction parts in low volume.

Case machine work - not six sigma. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)



Third: We both agree. Great job that Jake is 1) using NOS when feasible 2) tooled up in US when feasible 3) Making billet chips if #1 and #2 are cost prohibitive and/or can't be sourced.