Thoughts about GT build approach? Options

[Mayne]

Looking down the road a few years, I will be embarking on my GT build. Of course I spend a lot of time thinking about how I would approach it. My narrow-body car is not original, so purists don’t worry that I’m converting something that should stay stock.

So...I know I want a very traditional looking GT, probably Signal Orange, 15 inch Fuchs, factory-style black sail panels and roof, but maybe chrome bumpers instead of fiberglass, since my car already has them. Traditional interior, with maybe a Prototipo, 901 side shift with Wevo shifter, maybe some Rennline goodies on the floor. Stock dash and gauges.

The above is nothing that hasn’t been done, but I love the look and its nod to 914 racing history. But, I’ve all but given up hope that I could put an aircooled 6 in my build. Though I do nearly every aspect of my restoration work on my own, I believe it would double the cost of the build. And building a type 4, especially a bigger displacement one, wouldn’t be far off that cost. Plus you know, 6.

So I’ve researched a lot on engine swaps, which I struggle with a bit. Subaru 4 or American V8 would definitely supply the power but seem out of character for the traditional build. But I’ve come across the Subaru EZ30R conversions and it has me thinking that this is closest I can get to sound, power and character (maybe) of an aircooled six.

It has me wondering if I can do this swap and keep nearly all those traditional elements I’ve mentioned (gauges, pedal cluster, 901 (I know, I know), even 6-style front venting for the radiator). I have found the few threads here that outline the swap, but it seems like an essential part of it is to upgrade or modify many of the components I want to keep stock. Okay, sorry for the long post! Thoughts?

[Tdskip]

It is a VERY good idea to walk a path that others have traveled and ideally has vendor support in most cases. Build whatever will make you happy but for sanity and ongoing maintenance etc I’d suggest you pick an approach with strong vendor support.

[willieg]

I run a Subaru EZ30 in my 1974 914 and you can have everything you listed. I believe a WRX transmission is a stronger candidate as it will mount directly to the EZ30 and handle a lot of horsepower. Check out zerodecibels.com for bell crank ideas. And good luck.

[Cairo94507]

Hi Jeremy - I agree with Tdskip. If you want to enjoy the build and be able to drive the car w/o issues, go with a tired and true swap. Regardless of not going with a Porsche 6 swap, my vote would be the Subaru swap for ease of work and minimum costs. Plenty of vendors. Yes, I like the V-8 swaps, but I believe you would end up spending more to get to the finished product.

Of course you should figure on some chassis stiffening into your project. Unless you are going to be tracking it, I don't feel you would need to go extreme on the stiffening. MadDog and others make good inner chassis stiffening kits that are virtually invisible once installed.

Then of course you have to do a mild brake upgrade, PMB Performance is your one-stop vendor for that and quite frankly suspension and other needs too.

Elephant Racing makes great suspension components too. I went with their rubber bushings on my car and I am very happy with the ride and handling. I also went with Bilstein Sports on all 4 corners and factory (later) 914 front and rear sway bars.

Have a good, well-thought-out plan and then just begin tackling the issues one at a time. For me, getting the chassis prepared and rust free is the first build step. Do it once, do it right and don't touch it again.

Be realistic with your time frame and budget. Things happen and costs rise. Overall, have fun. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mepstein]

Another option is to wait until someone has a built type 4 for sale and grab it. There are always guys moving up from a modified four to a six. If your patient and have money ready, you can grab a good deal.

The other thing is while converting to a six has gotten expensive, if you intend to keep your car for a while and will enjoy what you have, it may be money well spent over time.

[mb911]

It is a VERY good idea to walk a path that others have traveled and ideally has vendor support in most cases. Build whatever will make you happy but for sanity and ongoing maintenance etc I’d suggest you pick an approach with strong vendor support.

I agree 100% and sage advice.. I am partial to the six builds but recently have started supporting the 4cyl cars and will continue to.. I have even thought about making. Solution to suby exhaust but to many variables.

There will be deals on small displacement -6s from time to time and likely you will see an abandoned project along the way. Keep all options open.

[Mayne]

Thanks for all the great comments!
A few thoughts:

When it's time to start this mega-project (can't be started in earnest until my 944 turbo restomod is finished), all the work initial work will be focused on body and chassis. As a New Mexico car, mine is pretty solid but will still need "some" rust repairs, along will properly fixing body damage at a couple of corners, plus welding on steel flares and prep for complete color change. So there will still be plenty of time to contemplate engine options.

Over time, I'll definitely be on the lookout for a deal on an air-cooled six, or even a great four. It's hard to imagine plunking down $10-12K for one, but who knows!

If I do go the Subaru 6 route, I would certainly be taking advantage of vendors and those who've been through it to make it go smoothly. I could still be convinced of the Subaru transmission too if there's a way to make it look more factory in the interior.

[Mark Henry]

The other thing is while converting to a six has gotten expensive, if you intend to keep your car for a while and will enjoy what you have, it may be money well spent over time.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
A /6 conversion has got real spendy. Back in the day 15+ years ago, JP sent me a spread sheet on a conversion and with upgrading with 5-bolt fuchs at about $17K. Now you can easily spend that on just the engine.

That said a pro built, well done, installed and sorted big T4 can run you $20K+. Even DIY stroker if you build it with the right parts once you add a quality header, muffler and carbs you're in about $12K. Plus the price keeps going up if you want EFI, nickies and all the "while you're in there" add-on's.

[rhodyguy]

And the costs tend to run in $1k, minimum, increments. The 'while you're in there's' drive costs thru the ceiling.

[Mayne]

And the costs tend to run in $1k, minimum, increments. The 'while you're in there's' drive costs thru the ceiling.

Yes I know it will be breathtaking when I’m into the build and the costs start rising. When I got the car about three years ago, I knew this would be the approach I would take and it almost got me to start stripping the car down for restoration. Luckily I resisted....for now. Having said, I just got back from a 30 minute drive in my scrappy car with its little 1.7 and it was fun.

[mlindner]

Jeremy, I went down the same road the last five years. Story: owned the 74 914 1.8 L for almost 40 years...after a lot of auto-crossing and track time the car got stored for over twenty years. Five years ago, it all started, car stripped on a dolly and off for final paint, parts replace or reconditioned. Purchased a 2.2L E engine long block with S Pistons and cams. changed out cams to fit E heads, new PMOs. All suspension upgrades to five bolt, trans rebuilt with short gears. Engine has just been run in and tuned at Accumoto Motorsport and now is coming home for install. Should be back on the road in a month or so. Best, Mark PS I'm with Ben, mb911. Six or four but stay with Porsche. Thats where the value will be.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Has anyone ever said you know. . . . I should have never put that six in it?

[Cairo94507]

Yeah, we all want a six- but the reality is that it's a lot more money to go down that path. Life, etc., and sometimes the timing is just not right.

I agree whole heartedly that staying true to Porsche is the best way to maximize the value of the car should you need to sell it. But I like people to be able to drive and enjoy their cars. I like the idea of getting the chassis, paint, suspension, brakes, wiring, interior, instruments, etc. sorted and putting whatever you can afford in it to be able to drive it while you then save some money for the 6 of your choice and the related parts to make that swap and then once you have everything pull out apart and covert to the 6. If that were the approach, I would keep the stock 4 in the car during the "gathering" phase. Minimizes down time and keeps you driving and enjoying your car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[mlindner]

Yup, I like that. Mark

[mb911]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Has anyone ever said you know. . . . I should have never put that six in it?

Very true.. Personally buy what you can when you can.. I often run package deals or group buys to get people started.

[Mayne]

Lots of great perspective here. If I could afford a Porsche six, it would be the engine of choice, and maybe someday it'll work out. Also, I'm sure a 2056 four with Webers and a good cam would be super fun. I don't know how much power my 1.7 is putting out but I'd surprised if it's 80hp. 120hp or so would probably feel revelatory!

I was hoping a few more Subaru swappers would chime in, though my thread title probably isn't making that obvious.

[Gint]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) Has anyone ever said you know. . . . I should have never put that six in it?

Hahahaha!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/av-943.gif) I have never heard anyone say that. Probably never will.

The answer is; it depends.

It depends on what you want to do, how much you want to spend, how quickly you can or want to spend it, how much you want to get for the work and money you spent when it does come time to sell it. If you intend to sell it, etc... Which is only a summary of what's already been said here by others.

Good luck and post pictures!

[Tdskip]

@Gint offers an important point, the worst 914 you can own is one you can’t finish. As @ Cairo94507 suggested keeping it usable until can just do the swap is a good idea for anyone going down this path.

[Gint]

@Gint offers an important point, the worst 914 you can own is one you can’t finish.

Only because I have first hand experience with the subject!

[mgp4591]

Thanks for all the great comments!
A few thoughts:

When it's time to start this mega-project (can't be started in earnest until my 944 turbo restomod is finished), all the work initial work will be focused on body and chassis. As a New Mexico car, mine is pretty solid but will still need "some" rust repairs, along will properly fixing body damage at a couple of corners, plus welding on steel flares and prep for complete color change. So there will still be plenty of time to contemplate engine options.

Over time, I'll definitely be on the lookout for a deal on an air-cooled six, or even a great four. It's hard to imagine plunking down $10-12K for one, but who knows!

If I do go the Subaru 6 route, I would certainly be taking advantage of vendors and those who've been through it to make it go smoothly. I could still be convinced of the Subaru transmission too if there's a way to make it look more factory in the interior.

If that's how you decide to go, check out Kent's build(s)... under 76-914. His Subys look stock from the inside but provide all of the thrills with much less cost and the ability to go back in the future if so desired. Others, like mine, will take some real dedication to return to stock. Mine had the entire floor rotted out so I chose a more radical approach but keeping them mostly stock looking is a doable endeavor. Whatever gets you on the road first, my friend...