Have you heard of or used PTH racing oil?, another anoying oil question- ran into this at the last Werk's Reunion and Ameila Concours Options

[DRPHIL914]

did some research and it turns out some big name racing groups have switched to this ,
and when comparing to Driven or Penn , it has similar atributes but a higher flash point, by quite a bit over DRIVEN . i will post the comparison chart provided by PTH , but looks interesting. I know i am not racing my car but oil temps can go up pretty good when driving in hot weather around here or up in the hills in summer, during a hard push up the mountain etc. , even with the aux oil cooler. Head temps are staying in safe zone. just wondering if anyone has used this as i dont see any previous posting on it .

https://www.pthoil.com/

PTH Racing Oil 20W 50
Specific Gravity: – 0.886

Kinematic Viscosity 40C: – 147.62

Kinematic Viscosity 100C: – 19.84

Viscosity Index: – 155

HTHS: – 5.2

Flash Point: – 235°C

Cold Crank Viscosity: – 3298cP

TBN: – 10

[tygaboy]

The owner of PTH approached me to ask about (and video!) my 914 when it was getting aligned at Roger Krause Racing. We got into a conversation about this oil and he pretty quickly outpaced my understanding of the related chemistry.
It sounds like the real deal as he mentioned a number of top race teams that use it.

[DRPHIL914]

The owner of PTH approached me to ask about (and video!) my 914 when it was getting aligned at Roger Krause Racing. We got into a conversation about this oil and he pretty quickly outpaced my understanding of the related chemistry.
It sounds like the real deal as he mentioned a number of top race teams that use it.

also the ZPPD numbers are higher than the other 2 popularly used oils. I have used either Driven or Brad Penn(Penn GRade) 20/50 and thats what is in the car now. Prior to that i had been using the Valvoline VR racing oil. the 2 main things that caught my attention is those numbers so much higher, i didnt realize the zppd numbers were so low in the driven oil, AND the flash point. That seems to be a huge difference we are talking close to 100degrees F difference. Its not cheap but then neither are rebuilt motors due to dropped valve seats etc. .

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/stirthepot.gif)

[second wind]

I would love to hear more about this oil.....anybody out there?? Having a dropped valve seat is something I never want to go through again....very painful. Could someone please tell me why using this oil might prevent a dropped valve seat? I just don't know enough about it. Thank you very much.
gg

[Superhawk996]

I would love to hear more about this oil.....anybody out there?? Having a dropped valve seat is something I never want to go through again....very painful. Could someone please tell me why using this oil might prevent a dropped valve seat? I just don't know enough about it. Thank you very much.
gg

Short answer - - - it won't.

Dropped valve seat is a function of grossly overheating the cylinder heads to the point that the head expands faster than the seat. The shrink fit is lost, and the seat literally falls out when the valve opens.

This type of massive overheating usually occurs from cooling blockages, running very lean mixtures for one reason or another, or timing being way, way off.

Oil type will not address this type of overheating.

[Mark Henry]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

A
It's a bouquet oil... so...(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

A good oil at around 1200-1400 ppm is all you need.

This year I'm using Shell Rotilla T5 semi-synthetic, cheap, I buy it on sale.
I haven't hit the 7k rev limiter yet, but I know I've been close. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

[second wind]

Funny (not really) when I lost my valve seat it turned out my oil cooler fins were completely clogged with dirt as were the bottom half of all four cylinder fins.....then I am waiting to pick my son up in the high school pick up line in the San Fernando Valley in August and I am looking at the electric sign saying " Go Eagles...temperature 104"....I think that was it.....
gg

[Superhawk996]

Funny (not really) when I lost my valve seat it turned out my oil cooler fins were completely clogged with dirt as were the bottom half of all four cylinder fins.....then I am waiting to pick my son up in the high school pick up line in the San Fernando Valley in August and I am looking at the electric sign saying " Go Eagles...temperature 104"....I think that was it.....
gg

Yup that would do it.

Air cooled won't mind 104F too much on a properly functioning engine. Clogged fins on the head would do the trick for sure. Clogged oil cooler would only make it worse. Although engines are called air cooled, there is a fair bit of oil cooling involved too.

[Olympic 914]

Little off topic but how does the oil flow to the heads on a type IV ?

oil feeds the lifters but solids don't pump oil up the pushrods. There are no oil lines to the rocker arm shafts.

Inquiring minds want to know.

[BENBRO02]

The owner of PTH approached me to ask about (and video!) my 914 when it was getting aligned at Roger Krause Racing. We got into a conversation about this oil and he pretty quickly outpaced my understanding of the related chemistry.
It sounds like the real deal as he mentioned a number of top race teams that use it.

also the ZPPD numbers are higher than the other 2 popularly used oils. I have used either Driven or Brad Penn(Penn GRade) 20/50 and thats what is in the car now. Prior to that i had been using the Valvoline VR racing oil. the 2 main things that caught my attention is those numbers so much higher, i didnt realize the zppd numbers were so low in the driven oil, AND the flash point. That seems to be a huge difference we are talking close to 100degrees F difference. Its not cheap but then neither are rebuilt motors due to dropped valve seats etc. .

How much zppd is the optimum amount?

[Superhawk996]

Little off topic but how does the oil flow to the heads on a type IV ?

oil feeds the lifters but solids don't pump oil up the pushrods. There are no oil lines to the rocker arm shafts.

Inquiring minds want to know.

@olympic 914

Hollow push rod tubes. Solid lifters have an oil flow port that goes from oil galley and flows oil up into the pushrod seat via hole right where the push rod seats.

Oil does flow up though the pushrod to the head and returns back via drainage through the push rod tube.

[Mark Henry]

Little off topic but how does the oil flow to the heads on a type IV ?

oil feeds the lifters but solids don't pump oil up the pushrods. There are no oil lines to the rocker arm shafts.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Through the hollow push rods, the lifter is the oil feed, the rockers are drilled, lubes the rocker shaft, some leaks down the adjuster threads and the rest is splash.
The push rod tubes are the oil return.

[Jake Raby]

The owner of PTH approached me to ask about (and video!) my 914 when it was getting aligned at Roger Krause Racing. We got into a conversation about this oil and he pretty quickly outpaced my understanding of the related chemistry.
It sounds like the real deal as he mentioned a number of top race teams that use it.

also the ZPPD numbers are higher than the other 2 popularly used oils. I have used either Driven or Brad Penn(Penn GRade) 20/50 and thats what is in the car now. Prior to that i had been using the Valvoline VR racing oil. the 2 main things that caught my attention is those numbers so much higher, i didnt realize the zppd numbers were so low in the driven oil, AND the flash point. That seems to be a huge difference we are talking close to 100degrees F difference. Its not cheap but then neither are rebuilt motors due to dropped valve seats etc. .

How much zppd is the optimum amount?

That's according to the base oil, and detergency packages. The anti- wear Vs detergency package balance is the most critical thing I have found over the last 16 years of direct testing of engine oils.

With a Zn and P of the levels above, I'd expect this oil to be effective in a very narrow range of specific applications, but it would take years of data collection, and UOA to prove it.

[DRPHIL914]

The owner of PTH approached me to ask about (and video!) my 914 when it was getting aligned at Roger Krause Racing. We got into a conversation about this oil and he pretty quickly outpaced my understanding of the related chemistry.
It sounds like the real deal as he mentioned a number of top race teams that use it.

also the ZPPD numbers are higher than the other 2 popularly used oils. I have used either Driven or Brad Penn(Penn GRade) 20/50 and thats what is in the car now. Prior to that i had been using the Valvoline VR racing oil. the 2 main things that caught my attention is those numbers so much higher, i didnt realize the zppd numbers were so low in the driven oil, AND the flash point. That seems to be a huge difference we are talking close to 100degrees F difference. Its not cheap but then neither are rebuilt motors due to dropped valve seats etc. .

How much zppd is the optimum amount?

That's according to the base oil, and detergency packages. The anti- wear Vs detergency package balance is the most critical thing I have found over the last 16 years of direct testing of engine oils.

With a Zn and P of the levels above, I'd expect this oil to be effective in a very narrow range of specific applications, but it would take years of data collection, and UOA to prove it.

@Jake Raby

Jake,
thanks for your input. are you using the DRIVEN DT50 in your current project, testing the new cylinder liner product on that 914 aircooled/4 mule?

Phil

[Jake Raby]

The owner of PTH approached me to ask about (and video!) my 914 when it was getting aligned at Roger Krause Racing. We got into a conversation about this oil and he pretty quickly outpaced my understanding of the related chemistry.
It sounds like the real deal as he mentioned a number of top race teams that use it.

also the ZPPD numbers are higher than the other 2 popularly used oils. I have used either Driven or Brad Penn(Penn GRade) 20/50 and thats what is in the car now. Prior to that i had been using the Valvoline VR racing oil. the 2 main things that caught my attention is those numbers so much higher, i didnt realize the zppd numbers were so low in the driven oil, AND the flash point. That seems to be a huge difference we are talking close to 100degrees F difference. Its not cheap but then neither are rebuilt motors due to dropped valve seats etc. .

How much zppd is the optimum amount?

That's according to the base oil, and detergency packages. The anti- wear Vs detergency package balance is the most critical thing I have found over the last 16 years of direct testing of engine oils.

With a Zn and P of the levels above, I'd expect this oil to be effective in a very narrow range of specific applications, but it would take years of data collection, and UOA to prove it.

@Jake Raby

Jake,
thanks for your input. are you using the DRIVEN DT50 in your current project, testing the new cylinder liner product on that 914 aircooled/4 mule?

Phil

No. We do not go to DT50 with our engines until after the first major service. The oil I am using with the Sumebore test engine was selected to only benefit the Sumebore development, and nothing else. This is a non- friction modified conventional oil blended by ARG specifically for this development. Typical practices that we use for Nickies engines were abandoned for the Sumebore comparatives.

This same oil is being used in the Sumebore water-cooled M9X engine as well, along with the same ring pack, running clearances, and piston specifications. This is an "air Vs Water, Nickies Vs. Sumebore" challenge.

This post has been edited by Jake Raby: Oct 16 2020, 11:07 AM