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> 1.7L HP, Why are the specs differing ?
DANNYMAC
post Oct 16 2020, 04:23 PM
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I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?
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JamesM
post Oct 16 2020, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 16 2020, 02:23 PM) *

I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?



Dont quote me on this, but I believe the California spec 1973 1.7s were only 69hp. I had a CA delivery 73 1.7 and it was noticeably slower than any other 1.7 (and any other 914 period) that I have driven and I recall reading at one point there was a difference with California delivery cars for that.

I think some of the difference in specs out there may have to do with specific country and differences between model year as there were far more differences delivered than just the 3 motor sizes (1.7, 1.8 and 2.0)

In the US alone the 1.7 and 2.0 motors had changes to its ignition and injection pretty much every year as well as the exhaust change in 75 and the added emissions in California. the 1.8s had quite a few changes that would have affected power between 74 and 75 as well.

And then there are the ROW delivery cars that were different as well. So really at the least there should be different specs for:

69-72 1.7 (79HP)
73 1.7 (69HP in CA)
US 73-74 2.0 (95 HP)
US 75-76 2.0 (87 HP)
ROW 73-76 2.0 (99 HP)
US 74 1.8 (??? HP)
US 75 1.8 (75 HP)
ROW 1.8 (84 HP)

and there are probably more than that as well.

Given 50 years of articles that just copy specs from other various sources the specific probably got lost somewhere along the way.

As for your 1.7 having pedal left at 110... 1. Is it stock and 2. Is your speedo accurate?
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JamesM
post Oct 16 2020, 05:14 PM
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Knew i had seen specs on a 73 CA 1.7 motor before...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=91988

That thread has a lot more reference information as to the various motors that were out there.

So yeah... there are a lot of possibly correct answers to the question of "how much power does a 1.7 have"
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mepstein
post Oct 16 2020, 06:00 PM
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Don't believe your speedometer.
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porschetub
post Oct 16 2020, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE(mepstein @ Oct 17 2020, 01:00 PM) *

Don't believe your speedometer.


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) ,wrong tyre profile perhaps ? may be worth checking a tyre size calculator.
Engine output for ROW cars was higher due to different higher compression pistons from what I researched,my last 1.8 build using NOS pistons were high tops with 5cc dome from European FI 411 motor but the case ran a carb cam.
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DANNYMAC
post Oct 17 2020, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 16 2020, 06:07 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 16 2020, 02:23 PM) *

I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?



Dont quote me on this, but I believe the California spec 1973 1.7s were only 69hp. I had a CA delivery 73 1.7 and it was noticeably slower than any other 1.7 (and any other 914 period) that I have driven and I recall reading at one point there was a difference with California delivery cars for that.

I think some of the difference in specs out there may have to do with specific country and differences between model year as there were far more differences delivered than just the 3 motor sizes (1.7, 1.8 and 2.0)

In the US alone the 1.7 and 2.0 motors had changes to its ignition and injection pretty much every year as well as the exhaust change in 75 and the added emissions in California. the 1.8s had quite a few changes that would have affected power between 74 and 75 as well.

And then there are the ROW delivery cars that were different as well. So really at the least there should be different specs for:

69-72 1.7 (79HP)
73 1.7 (69HP in CA)
US 73-74 2.0 (95 HP)
US 75-76 2.0 (87 HP)
ROW 73-76 2.0 (99 HP)
US 74 1.8 (??? HP)
US 75 1.8 (75 HP)
ROW 1.8 (84 HP)

and there are probably more than that as well.

Given 50 years of articles that just copy specs from other various sources the specific probably got lost somewhere along the way.

As for your 1.7 having pedal left at 110... 1. Is it stock and 2. Is your speedo accurate?

Completely stock, level road, accurate speedo, if, the 2016 van I paced it with speedo is accurate ?
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Racer
post Oct 19 2020, 12:56 PM
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The early 1970s was a crazy time for hp...

DIN
SAE HP Gross
SAE HP net
JIS
BHP (Brochure hp (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )

Taking numbers from Andy's link below:
DIN to SAE conversion : DIN divided by 1.0139 gives you SAE net hp

So, in our early 1.7 80DIN hp rating, that works out to 78.9 SAE hp

a 73 1.7 (DIN 72) would yield only 71 SAE hp


Speedo error can exist and tire size can play into that error.

And yes, the 1.7 cars were all rated at 109mph iirc. Just cause you have more throttle, doesn't mean you have more speed. Its aero limited. The 914/6 with all it might (106-110-125hp, depending on whose rating you find) was limited to 125mph.
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SirAndy
post Oct 19 2020, 05:11 PM
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http://www.914world.com/specs/engnumbs.php

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TargaToy
post Oct 19 2020, 05:41 PM
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I like to use a GPS to check speed. Even pacing isn’t spot-on accurate.
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VaccaRabite
post Oct 21 2020, 07:41 AM
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When I need to know how fast I'm going, I use a GPS speedo app on my phone. The speedo in my car is very optimistic, and it gets more optimistic the faster the car goes.

Zach
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DANNYMAC
post Oct 21 2020, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 16 2020, 06:07 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 16 2020, 02:23 PM) *

I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?



Dont quote me on this, but I believe the California spec 1973 1.7s were only 69hp. I had a CA delivery 73 1.7 and it was noticeably slower than any other 1.7 (and any other 914 period) that I have driven and I recall reading at one point there was a difference with California delivery cars for that.

I think some of the difference in specs out there may have to do with specific country and differences between model year as there were far more differences delivered than just the 3 motor sizes (1.7, 1.8 and 2.0)

In the US alone the 1.7 and 2.0 motors had changes to its ignition and injection pretty much every year as well as the exhaust change in 75 and the added emissions in California. the 1.8s had quite a few changes that would have affected power between 74 and 75 as well.

And then there are the ROW delivery cars that were different as well. So really at the least there should be different specs for:

69-72 1.7 (79HP)
73 1.7 (69HP in CA)
US 73-74 2.0 (95 HP)
US 75-76 2.0 (87 HP)
ROW 73-76 2.0 (99 HP)
US 74 1.8 (??? HP)
US 75 1.8 (75 HP)
ROW 1.8 (84 HP)

and there are probably more than that as well.

Given 50 years of articles that just copy specs from other various sources the specific probably got lost somewhere along the way.

As for your 1.7 having pedal left at 110... 1. Is it stock and 2. Is your speedo accurate?

You don't list a 1.7 non CA ?
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DANNYMAC
post Oct 21 2020, 08:18 AM
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QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Oct 21 2020, 08:41 AM) *

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
When I need to know how fast I'm going, I use a GPS speedo app on my phone. The speedo in my car is very optimistic, and it gets more optimistic the faster the car goes.

Zach

I'll try that, but I had a Dodge Van following who says speedo's matched
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JamesM
post Oct 21 2020, 11:22 AM
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QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 21 2020, 06:16 AM) *

QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 16 2020, 06:07 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 16 2020, 02:23 PM) *

I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?



Dont quote me on this, but I believe the California spec 1973 1.7s were only 69hp. I had a CA delivery 73 1.7 and it was noticeably slower than any other 1.7 (and any other 914 period) that I have driven and I recall reading at one point there was a difference with California delivery cars for that.

I think some of the difference in specs out there may have to do with specific country and differences between model year as there were far more differences delivered than just the 3 motor sizes (1.7, 1.8 and 2.0)

In the US alone the 1.7 and 2.0 motors had changes to its ignition and injection pretty much every year as well as the exhaust change in 75 and the added emissions in California. the 1.8s had quite a few changes that would have affected power between 74 and 75 as well.

And then there are the ROW delivery cars that were different as well. So really at the least there should be different specs for:

69-72 1.7 (79HP)
73 1.7 (69HP in CA)
US 73-74 2.0 (95 HP)
US 75-76 2.0 (87 HP)
ROW 73-76 2.0 (99 HP)
US 74 1.8 (??? HP)
US 75 1.8 (75 HP)
ROW 1.8 (84 HP)

and there are probably more than that as well.

Given 50 years of articles that just copy specs from other various sources the specific probably got lost somewhere along the way.

As for your 1.7 having pedal left at 110... 1. Is it stock and 2. Is your speedo accurate?

You don't list a 1.7 non CA ?



Quite a few i didnt list im sure. 73 non California should have been the EA code engine which is the same as the 69-72, though TBH every 73 1.7 I have ever seen has had the California EB code motor, though that could just be a side effect of having lived 23 years in California and the fact that a majority of surviving cars come from there (and the majority of cars were also delivered there)

My point wasn't really to describe every possible engine though but more to point out the fact that if you see a single generalized spec listed somewhere as the power output for a 914 its overlooking the fact that multiple variants were available even for a single displacement. Also that was 50 years ago, very few of these cars motors have been completely untouched in that time.

If you want to know what your car is putting out power wise, throw it on a dyno.
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DANNYMAC
post Oct 21 2020, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 21 2020, 12:22 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 21 2020, 06:16 AM) *

QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 16 2020, 06:07 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 16 2020, 02:23 PM) *

I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?



Dont quote me on this, but I believe the California spec 1973 1.7s were only 69hp. I had a CA delivery 73 1.7 and it was noticeably slower than any other 1.7 (and any other 914 period) that I have driven and I recall reading at one point there was a difference with California delivery cars for that.

I think some of the difference in specs out there may have to do with specific country and differences between model year as there were far more differences delivered than just the 3 motor sizes (1.7, 1.8 and 2.0)

In the US alone the 1.7 and 2.0 motors had changes to its ignition and injection pretty much every year as well as the exhaust change in 75 and the added emissions in California. the 1.8s had quite a few changes that would have affected power between 74 and 75 as well.

And then there are the ROW delivery cars that were different as well. So really at the least there should be different specs for:

69-72 1.7 (79HP)
73 1.7 (69HP in CA)
US 73-74 2.0 (95 HP)
US 75-76 2.0 (87 HP)
ROW 73-76 2.0 (99 HP)
US 74 1.8 (??? HP)
US 75 1.8 (75 HP)
ROW 1.8 (84 HP)

and there are probably more than that as well.

Given 50 years of articles that just copy specs from other various sources the specific probably got lost somewhere along the way.

As for your 1.7 having pedal left at 110... 1. Is it stock and 2. Is your speedo accurate?

You don't list a 1.7 non CA ?



Quite a few i didnt list im sure. 73 non California should have been the EA code engine which is the same as the 69-72, though TBH every 73 1.7 I have ever seen has had the California EB code motor, though that could just be a side effect of having lived 23 years in California and the fact that a majority of surviving cars come from there (and the majority of cars were also delivered there)

My point wasn't really to describe every possible engine though but more to point out the fact that if you see a single generalized spec listed somewhere as the power output for a 914 its overlooking the fact that multiple variants were available even for a single displacement. Also that was 50 years ago, very few of these cars motors have been completely untouched in that time.

If you want to know what your car is putting out power wise, throw it on a dyno.

I guess I have an unusual situation, is one of the reasons I am asking. I have a 1973 1.7L 19688 original miles, sold first in Springfield Mass. Engine has never been touched, Basement stored until 2016 TRE in Van Nuys just replaced the original 1973 Clutch that was still with the car, verified "original"
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914_teener
post Oct 21 2020, 03:30 PM
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QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 21 2020, 01:55 PM) *

QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 21 2020, 12:22 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 21 2020, 06:16 AM) *

QUOTE(JamesM @ Oct 16 2020, 06:07 PM) *

QUOTE(DANNYMAC @ Oct 16 2020, 02:23 PM) *

I see 1.7L spec's all over the place, several list 80HP but some say 69 saw one stating 86 what gives ? All say Top End is 110mph but I just had my 1.7L at 110 and had some pedal left ?



Dont quote me on this, but I believe the California spec 1973 1.7s were only 69hp. I had a CA delivery 73 1.7 and it was noticeably slower than any other 1.7 (and any other 914 period) that I have driven and I recall reading at one point there was a difference with California delivery cars for that.

I think some of the difference in specs out there may have to do with specific country and differences between model year as there were far more differences delivered than just the 3 motor sizes (1.7, 1.8 and 2.0)

In the US alone the 1.7 and 2.0 motors had changes to its ignition and injection pretty much every year as well as the exhaust change in 75 and the added emissions in California. the 1.8s had quite a few changes that would have affected power between 74 and 75 as well.

And then there are the ROW delivery cars that were different as well. So really at the least there should be different specs for:

69-72 1.7 (79HP)
73 1.7 (69HP in CA)
US 73-74 2.0 (95 HP)
US 75-76 2.0 (87 HP)
ROW 73-76 2.0 (99 HP)
US 74 1.8 (??? HP)
US 75 1.8 (75 HP)
ROW 1.8 (84 HP)

and there are probably more than that as well.

Given 50 years of articles that just copy specs from other various sources the specific probably got lost somewhere along the way.

As for your 1.7 having pedal left at 110... 1. Is it stock and 2. Is your speedo accurate?

You don't list a 1.7 non CA ?



Quite a few i didnt list im sure. 73 non California should have been the EA code engine which is the same as the 69-72, though TBH every 73 1.7 I have ever seen has had the California EB code motor, though that could just be a side effect of having lived 23 years in California and the fact that a majority of surviving cars come from there (and the majority of cars were also delivered there)

My point wasn't really to describe every possible engine though but more to point out the fact that if you see a single generalized spec listed somewhere as the power output for a 914 its overlooking the fact that multiple variants were available even for a single displacement. Also that was 50 years ago, very few of these cars motors have been completely untouched in that time.

If you want to know what your car is putting out power wise, throw it on a dyno.

I guess I have an unusual situation, is one of the reasons I am asking. I have a 1973 1.7L 19688 original miles, sold first in Springfield Mass. Engine has never been touched, Basement stored until 2016 TRE in Van Nuys just replaced the original 1973 Clutch that was still with the car, verified "original"



So are you saying your odometer actually works and has always worked?

That is always what breaks first on these cars. Not unusual at all for a 1.7 to last 200k running D-jet.
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JamesM
post Oct 21 2020, 04:53 PM
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QUOTE(914_teener @ Oct 21 2020, 01:30 PM) *

So are you saying your odometer actually works and has always worked?

That is always what breaks first on these cars. Not unusual at all for a 1.7 to last 200k running D-jet.


Odometers breaking is probably more common than a clutch needing to be replaced with only 19k, especially on a 1.7 as they are not exactly torque monsters, but who knows. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)

My guess would be the odo rolled once, but again, who knows, could have just been bad driving.
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76-914
post Oct 21 2020, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE(VaccaRabite @ Oct 21 2020, 06:41 AM) *

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When I need to know how fast I'm going, I use a GPS speedo app on my phone. The speedo in my car is very optimistic, and it gets more optimistic the faster the car goes.

Zach

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Indicated speed vs. actual speed are usually way off. I run with lots of other 914's that think they're going 85-90 but they're usually off at least 7-8 mph. My speedo is GPS driven so tire changes don't effect it. It's pretty dicey driving a van over 95 and to push a van 105 is going to take some HP. Most American cars, new, are intentionally set to read 3-4mph faster than they are really going. The police cars had calibrated speedos. Enjoy the 1.7. They're great engines and last a long time.
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