Any racers have FuelSafe? What size for sprint?, Racing fuel cells Options

[Stark 01]

Hi everyone, I’m getting my 914 back into racing shape. The ATL fuel cell is old and was installed by PO for endurance racing, 22 gallons.

I have replaced everything downstream of the Holley pump, and now thinking of a smaller tank for sprints. (Can’t see myself doing endurance racing, although I would love to).

The Fuel Safe cells are more affordable than ATL, and carry the FIA cert. They can be ordered with the Holley pickup mats, which also eliminates the need for a 100 micron filter before the pump.
Does anyone here have anything negative to say about them from personal experience?

What size tank should I get for my 914-4 built engine (2.0)? I’m thinking 8 gallon?

[brant]

the rule was always 10 gallon for 4 cylinder
and 15 gallon for 6 cylinder


the only bad thing about an FIA certification is that they expire
once you are running in a group that notes the date on your FIA certified part... they will make you replace.

I think FIA seat belts are 2 or 3 years
I kinda remember that fuel cells might be 3 or 5 years
so replacing it every 5 years would suck!

there is no harm in running a fuel cell less than full
there is minimal weight given up on an empty cell
and it allows you to add fuel when you do eventually participate in an enduro without changing out th cell


so the common sense answer is run a bigger cell with less fuel in it
I add 4 gallons to my cell every single sprint race
but still have the capacity of 15 gallons for longer events

brant

[Stark 01]

the rule was always 10 gallon for 4 cylinder
and 15 gallon for 6 cylinder


the only bad thing about an FIA certification is that they expire
once you are running in a group that notes the date on your FIA certified part... they will make you replace.

I think FIA seat belts are 2 or 3 years
I kinda remember that fuel cells might be 3 or 5 years
so replacing it every 5 years would suck!

there is no harm in running a fuel cell less than full
there is minimal weight given up on an empty cell
and it allows you to add fuel when you do eventually participate in an enduro without changing out th cell


so the common sense answer is run a bigger cell with less fuel in it
I add 4 gallons to my cell every single sprint race
but still have the capacity of 15 gallons for longer events

brant

Thank you for taking the time. I was SCCA and it was 5 years and can be extended with an “inspection”. Eventually I want to move to historic, so I will have to find the rule book for that sanctioning body, but most likely it is 5 years for everyone. I have no choice, the stock tank is long gone, and the current one is a couple years past 5 and I am assuming so is the foam inside.

[JKW]

Fuel safe tanks are fine. For historic racing they use the stock tank case to fill with foam.

[slivel]

Mine is a 914 steel tank notched on the ends to accommodate the camber plates. It was sent to Fuel Safe for bladder and contains foam. I once eeked out a 1 hour enduro but was on fumes on the last lap. For planning I use 6.5 mpg for my 3.4l six. I measured my capacity at about 14 gal - maybe a bit less.

[brant]

Fuel safe tanks are fine. For historic racing they use the stock tank case to fill with foam.

Fuel safe makes a stock tank with bladder and foam
but they also make race car cells that are not the stock tank

[Stark 01]

Found a date code, manufactured 09/2011. Either a new bladder or a all new tank will be in order.
This is an older pic to show how big the box is.

[GregAmy]

FIA harnesses are 5 years; they have an expiration year on the tag, good through 12/31 of that year with the SCCA.

SFI belts are 2 years with the SCCA, good through 12/31 of their expiration year with the SCCA.

Don't buy SFI belts. Just don't.

Fuel bladder expiration dates are not enforced within the SCCA. You'll need to remove your bladder regularly and inspect its condition.

[stownsen914]

Check the rules of the org's you'll be racing with. Many people inspect the bladder and reuse if still in good condition. Look for drying/cracking and leaks. And it's a good idea to replace the foam if the bladder looks reusable.

If you replace, 22 gallons is pretty darn big for a /4 and a bladder may be expensive. But check your options if you decide to go that route.

[brant]

good reminder about the foam
the foam has a fairly short life
when it breaks down, it creates havoc with the filters and not fun to chase
I'd recommend the expensive foam about every 3-4 years
I'm inspecting my bladder annually now and SVRA is accepting that so far

[GregAmy]

good reminder about the foam

Drain your fuel tank, lines, and carbs between seasons, especially if you're using fuel with alcohol.

[brant]

good reminder about the foam

Drain your fuel tank, lines, and carbs between seasons, especially if you're using fuel with alcohol.

definitely.
and I moved over to AV gas, as the octane was adequate for me at altitude
and the fuel is more stabile than the race gas I used to use
it required re-jetting for all of the tracks but eliminated other problems.

I pull the bladder, inspect and oil it annually... store it without fuel over the winter

[Stark 01]

This is all wise advice, thank you all.

[wndsrfr]

I've just gone to ATL from Fuel Safe as I was getting debris that clogged the small screen filter in the pickup line ahead of the fuel pump. Sure enough got debris from the ATL also but ascribe that to the new installation. I run a mix of leaded 112/115 race fuel with 93 pump gas that has ethanol, about 25% race fuel...guessing the ethanol slowly degrades the foam & is the source of the debris.
As to capacity, 12 gallon for a /4 should be right. You have to think about the last laps of a session in which the fuel sloshes to the left on long right hand sweepers and you suck air. Dual pickups in a tank require dual fuel pumps--surprise surprise! Soo..get the sump option that has check valve doors and a single pickup in the sump box. Then put on a good capacity pre-filter in the pickup line where you can get to it to backflush it out....I just went with an Aeromotive with stainless mesh insert--expensive at $147 but I think worth it. You can choose 100 micron or 40 micron.
Rock ON!

[Stark 01]

Thank you for all that info.

I know the foam deteriorates, and the bladder can dry out and crack, but I had this thought about all the advice to drain the fuel. I used to be around some classic airplanes that had bladder tanks, and the advice was to store them full so they don’t dry and crack, but the advice here is opposite. Anyone know why?

I found a new product by Holley that sounds awesome:
A mat that lays at the bottom of the tank. It allows fuel to seep in, but not out. According to Holley, it will scavenge from anywhere mat is touching fuel. Also acts like a 40 micron filter. I guess you would still need foam on top though. Fuel Safe allows you to purchase it installed, in leu of a pickup box with baffles. Downside is it does have a service life too.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_system...amat/hydramats/

[stownsen914]

I've heard good things about Hydramats, but not yet from racers. Curious to hear if they work as claimed. It's a good idea to have something to aid fuel pickup. My racecar has a 12 gallon ATL cell, and I used to experience fuel starvation at half a tank. I put one of the trap door pickup tanks in.

Re: storing empty, not sure why the different advice. One possibility is many cars use pump gas with ethanol, which is known to degrade foam and bladders. I believe avgas doesn't have ethanol. I drain my tank even though I use race fuel with no ethanol.

[Trackd]

Avoid hydramats. It doesn't work well in EFI high pressure applications well. IF you are using a mechanical pump low pressure they may work well and may be a stopgap.

I use a Radium FCST which is a FuelSafe 15 gal Endurance cell with an internal surge tank. I never had any issues with fuel starvation. I would pick this cell every single time no question. Also has an FIA internal bladder.

The foam does fall apart every 3 years. I've had this since 2017. I do need to change it this winter.