Flasher relay question, Solved finally Options

[burlybryan]

Update: in chasing the clicking relay hell, I’ve gone over all grounds, bulb contacts, turn signal switch (which i needed anyway), door contacts, ebrake switch, etc. The only remaining possibility (from my knowledge) was the brake MC switch. Mine doesn’t have a reset button so today I replaced it. Presto! No more flasher relay clicking. Hopefully this helps someone.
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I've started threads in the past regarding my quest to figure out why my flasher relay clicks all the time. Parking brake light and turn signal light operated as normal and I had replaced the parking brake switch and chased a detached wire in the seatbelt relay under the passenger seat.

Today I got a new flasher relay and installed it. Miraculously, the clicking has stopped, but as sometimes happens with car karma, it has been replaced by the turn signal light flashing very fast all of the time. The parking brake light, when activated by the brake flashes very fast, but goes off when the brake is down. When using the turn signals, the light returns to normal paced flashing, but when the TS switch is off, the light goes back to flashing double time.

As noted in an earlier thread, my MC doesn't have a reset switch. I have a new one to swap in, but haven't done that yet.

Any ideas what's going on? Is this still an indication of a tripped (non existent or internal) MC switch? It's the less expensive aftermarket relay.

[dangrouche]

In my experience a fast clicking flasher relay usually indicates a bad bulb. Have you examined each bulb ? Start with the basics.

[burlybryan]

In my experience a fast clicking flasher relay usually indicates a bad bulb. Have you examined each bulb ? Start with the basics.

Thanks. All turn signal bulbs are working and operate as they should. They worked normally before with the clicking relay. Only change is that the new relay doesn't click, but has the fast flashing turn signal indicator (a single yellow bulb on the tach in '74).

[Spoke]

Miraculously, the clicking has stopped, but as sometimes happens with car karma, it has been replaced by the turn signal light flashing very fast all of the time.

Can you be more specific about the indicator flashing very fast all of the time?

The parking brake light, when activated by the brake flashes very fast, but goes off when the brake is down.

The fast flashing called hyperflashing is 2x the normal rate and indicates to the driver that an external bulb is burned out. Since the only load is the brake warning bulb, the flasher hyperflashes which would be expected.

When using the turn signals, the light returns to normal paced flashing

The flasher is working correctly as it senses at least 2 bulbs.

but when the TS switch is off, the light goes back to flashing double time.

When you say this, is this because the brake warning light is still on?

[burlybryan]

Miraculously, the clicking has stopped, but as sometimes happens with car karma, it has been replaced by the turn signal light flashing very fast all of the time.

Can you be more specific about the indicator flashing very fast all of the time?

The parking brake light, when activated by the brake flashes very fast, but goes off when the brake is down.

The fast flashing called hyperflashing is 2x the normal rate and indicates to the driver that an external bulb is burned out. Since the only load is the brake warning bulb, the flasher hyperflashes which would be expected.

When using the turn signals, the light returns to normal paced flashing

The flasher is working correctly as it senses at least 2 bulbs.

but when the TS switch is off, the light goes back to flashing double time.

When you say this, is this because the brake warning light is still on?

Before replacing the flasher relay, the original relay clicked at a slow or "normal" rate whenever the ignition was energized. With the new relay, the parking brake light (only when the brake is pulled) and the turn signal light flash 2x the rate. The light returns to normal pace when the signal stalk is turned for right or left.

The brake warning light is off when the brake is down, but the TS light is still hyper flashing.

I just went out and replaced the front TS lights w/ dbl filament 1157s and single filament 21w in the rears (always have new spares).

Oddly enough when I energized the ignition, the TS indicator light was off. When I turned the signal lever to the left, the light started hyperflashing again. Maybe something going on with the left circuit? It's really annoying because the lights work as they should, so nothing is obvious.

FWIW, I did recently replace my turn signal switch. The previous clicking relay issue existed before and after replacing the switch.

Thanks.

[davep]

Are all the bulbs standard incandescent type?

[burlybryan]

Are all the bulbs standard incandescent type?

They are. Stock bulb # and wattage. Nothing special.

[Spoke]

The bulb wattage shouldn't matter since the issue is at the flasher. The 4-way switch, turnsignal switch, and wiring to the ebrake and MC fault switches are the only items hanging on pin 49a of the flasher. No path to ground: no click. Some leakage path to ground: clicks with no lights on.

Something in the wiring or switches is leaking to ground. Several people have also had this happen in 911's too. One way to check is to remove the flasher and measure the resistance from pin 49a on the socket to chassis ground with your DMM. If you have anything less than about 10k ohms then you have a leak somewhere. You should see an open circuit.

[burlybryan]

The bulb wattage shouldn't matter since the issue is at the flasher. The 4-way switch, turnsignal switch, and wiring to the ebrake and MC fault switches are the only items hanging on pin 49a of the flasher. No path to ground: no click. Some leakage path to ground: clicks with no lights on.

Something in the wiring or switches is leaking to ground. Several people have also had this happen in 911's too. One way to check is to remove the flasher and measure the resistance from pin 49a on the socket to chassis ground with your DMM. If you have anything less than about 10k ohms then you have a leak somewhere. You should see an open circuit.

Thanks. Will do.

[904svo]

Another WAG, remove the lens and the bulbs and check that the number of prongs in the socket are the same as the bulb.

[burlybryan]

Another WAG, remove the lens and the bulbs and check that the number of prongs in the socket are the same as the bulb.

Thanks. Have done that. Also pulled up on the prongs inside the sockets to ensure contact with both bulb contacts. Brightened them up with a dremel too.

[burlybryan]

The bulb wattage shouldn't matter since the issue is at the flasher. The 4-way switch, turnsignal switch, and wiring to the ebrake and MC fault switches are the only items hanging on pin 49a of the flasher. No path to ground: no click. Some leakage path to ground: clicks with no lights on.

Something in the wiring or switches is leaking to ground. Several people have also had this happen in 911's too. One way to check is to remove the flasher and measure the resistance from pin 49a on the socket to chassis ground with your DMM. If you have anything less than about 10k ohms then you have a leak somewhere. You should see an open circuit.

Pulled the flasher, ignition not on and testing between pins 49a and chassis ground shows 8.5K ohms. Seems to indicate a leak to ground?

[burlybryan]

I may have solved the issue or at least made the original flasher relay stop clicking all the time.

I took the car out on some errands today and noticed that when turning the signal stalk to the left, the indicator light would flash once and then not flash. I also noticed that the front left bulb was flashing dimmer. Now, I'd been through all of this and that indicator was working normally previously, so when I got home I popped off the front indicator lens, pulled the bulb and fiddled with the contacts again.

I noticed that one prong didn't show as much wear as the other and it had some corrosion between the two pieces of the copper sandwich that makes up each contact. Cleaned it up and worked the prong a bunch and popped the bulb in.

Energized ignition and the TS light was back to normal brightness AND the dash indicator light was blinking normally again AND I wasn't hearing any clicking from the relay. Huh.

Thanks to Spoke to send me on the direction of checking for a leak to ground. I'm going to remove the suspect light housing and clean it up some more.

The odd thing is, for comparison, I swapped in the new flasher relay to see if it's hyperflashing was gone and it was still doing it. So, either I fixed the issue and the aftermarket new relay is flakey, or I haven't really fixed it, but it's been fixed enough to stop the original relay from clicking all the time.

Prior to my 914, I had a Fiat Spider. Funny thing is I had zero electrical gremlins with that car, but the 914 is making up for that luck. To be fair though, the 914 wiring harness is much older (I had an '82 spider) and much more brittle.