The Unfortunate dealings Options

[914nb]

Im happy for it to be closed,

It wont matter how much proof I were to provide it wont get rectified, I asked and he declined.

Im happy for people to judge me , iv spoke the truth so I can hold my head high.

I value everyone's opinion but you also need to mine because no matter what there will always be my side to marks story.


Hope you all Enjoy your day.

[mepstein]

“Oh and the last thing he had to say?

LOL, have a good life!”

Yep, after you threatened me with legal action, I figured it was a better response than what I wanted to write.

Yes, many parts are different from the old pictures of the car because that’s what we agreed to. Accusing me of switching out injectors for leaky ones, lol. Because good used 1.7 injectors are worth so much money that I offered to help you buy the nos ones and send them to you. Like many parts of the car, the dash, seats, etc is different than what was in the old pictures. I threw in a core dash and seats even though and after we agreed that the cars interior would be stripped. I figured driver parts would be better than nothing. Same with the bumpers, valance and many other parts. They were specifically not part of the deal but your many emails, some explaining your condition, made me think it would be helpful to at least have core or driver quality parts to work with. You didn’t mind accepting all the parts for free.

I asked a couple members what they paid for their project cars, took the lowest price and then took half of that. $1,500. This is a numbers matching, sub 40 thousand mile car with good title. So if we are going to bring up your physical condition as a disadvantage to negotiations, I would say they disadvantaged me because I have empathy for your situation and always gave you the benefit. Same with car pickup that you hired. I made multiple trips back to my house from work for pickups that never happened and let it go.

I stand by the transaction I did with you as being upfront, above board and as agreed by both parties. I’ve done thousands of transactions on this and other sites and have never had one disagreement over a transaction. So yes, have a nice life.

[914nb]

The pictures i have to compare against are from after I bought the car but like I said previously I gave you a chance to correct your wrong doings and you declined.

I have nothing else to say to you, your aware of what you removed and swapped out after I paid exactly what you asked for.

Shipping was past and present motorcars, a very reputable business who said you messed them about with collection, 3 attempts to collect the car and pictures provided all times- contact jack lazinsk and ask yourself- i paid twice due to this but never questioned mark.

If anyone wants to talk about this please message me and I will show you as much or as little as you like....

Fact is, I was lied to and taken advantage of because as I believe my location.

Like I said if anyone wants to chat, please feel free to message me iv nothing to hide.

All the best,

Nathan

[ddire333]

New on the forum so don't know either member, I have bought several low value cars sight unseen over the years, most had additional issues the sellers didn't fully cover, some major some not so. Have come to realize the seller is not always looking as deep or at the same things I am, plus they want to sell. If I choose to purchase without viewing or inspection I just have suck it up, and for the prices I'm talking about it was worth a punt even if all I got was a parts car.

I have been looking for 914 project cars for a while now and seen nothing reasonable solid for under $5000 so at $1,500 I would be expecting lots to do no mater what.

Very poor 914 project cars would make £3-4 k in the UK, so there is a simple out if your not wanting to fix up.

[914nb]

New on the forum so don't know either member, I have bought several low value cars sight unseen over the years, most had additional issues the sellers didn't fully cover, some major some not so. Have come to realize the seller is not always looking as deep or at the same things I am, plus they want to sell. If I choose to purchase without viewing or inspection I just have suck it up, and for the prices I'm talking about it was worth a punt even if all I got was a parts car.

I have been looking for 914 project cars for a while now and seen nothing reasonable solid for under $5000 so at $1,500 I would be expecting lots to do no mater what.

Very poor 914 project cars would make £3-4 k in the UK, so there is a simple out if your not wanting to fix up.

No matter the value no one would expect parts to be removed after the purchase and see that as acceptable though.

[aggiezig]

I'll throw my $.02 out there as I have personally bought way too many old cars in my short time on this planet. When you buy any car, but especially an old car, and especially an old Porsche, you have to accept from the get-go that you are opening a can of worms. At best, these cars are 44 years old now. There are going to be broken and or missing parts. There is going to be rust (especially on a 914). You don't buy one of these cars unless you have deep pockets or lots of free time to foot regular maintenance let alone deferred repairs.

I realize there are some accusations of misrepresentations here. All I can say is to make sure everything is in explicit detail in writing if you expect it to be included as a part of the sale. Additionally, you should always, always, always physically inspect the car or send someone to do this on your behalf. I realize you are not in the same geographic area. That being said, if you could not send someone to check out the car on your behalf, then you must understand that is a risk to the purchase.

Despite every party's best intention in a transaction, no one can read minds or remember the smallest minutia. In my personal experience, lawyers will make no one money but themselves in these situations (sorry if you are an attorney). I do not feel that a public shaming on this forum is going to accomplish your goals, OP. It sounds like you are the new owner of a car that needs a lot of work. So, instead, I would focus my efforts on the new task at hand or finding another owner to take over the project.

[914nb]

Yeah like I said it is what it is, the chance to correct was offered and declined.

Iv done what I said I would do, im on private messages if anyone wants me.

Thanks for those who have send me messages, its appreciated.


Thats me now, said my bit.


Nathan

[willieg]

With all respect to my esteemed colleague, I'm going to open this back up. However, I acknowledge and share Zach's concerns. He's not an asshole - he correctly sees huge red flags here.

We treat people with courtesy and respect, even during disagreements. If a member chooses to be rude, he is courting a time-out. There will be no warnings.

Please play nice and let my day be a boring one. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drunk.gif)

Thank you for re-opening this thread. I think the importance of this thread to to remind everyone, when buying or selling a car, that one persons reality is different from another persons. What may seem a major issue to me may seem like a minor issue to the other party. I heard the definition of a good compromise is when nobody is totally happy.

Opening the thread also allows 914World members to voice their experiences with the buyer and the seller. When you have a "he said, she said" dispute, other evidence should be considered.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Again, you make allegations, cast aspersions, say you were ripped off, and the only proof you have shown this group is one grainy picture of a steering wheel. Did Mark send you the picture with the nice wheel, or did you find it and compare?
It's poor form to make pretty serious accusations about someone and then when called on it say, "Thats me now, said my bit."

If you were ripped off, show us. If you can't then Mark's story sure seems to hold up a lot better than yours.

[Amphicar770]

In looking at the two steering wheel pics they look the same to me other than one is brightly lit, the other dimly lit.

Leaky injectors? Yes, that happens when you start running engines that have sat idle for a decade. Sounds like he tried to make it right and you refused.

As others have noted, public forums are not the place to resolve private disputes.

[Mikey914]

There are 2 sides to every story. And each person sees and speaks the truth from the lens in which they view the "reality"


Its important to look at the lens you are using.

I can clearly see Marks lens that the tried to communicate the shortfalls of the project and if this was a face to face sale would more than likely say I'd take it back here's your money.

It's a $1500 roller with a motor and bonus parts.

The buyer can look at pictures and as most of us do try to fill in the blanks with what we think things should be. Often we are disappointed when reality hits. I too was victim to this. I felt the buyer was less than complete in describing the issues. Paid 1700 to have it trucked in. Total cost $3200. What I got was a rust bucket with a motor. Yes many salvageable parts. Did I get screwed? Looking back I'd have a pretty purchase done, but the price was so good it seemed like a deal.

The truth is always some where in between.

Did I wind up with about what I paid for, yes. Screaming deal no.


If Mark had a track record of complaints here I'd be skeptical about purchasing from him. My experience says otherwise, but having an open forum and dialog is important.


Best wishes to both of you.

[914nb]

Again, you make allegations, cast aspersions, say you were ripped off, and the only proof you have shown this group is one grainy picture of a steering wheel. Did Mark send you the picture with the nice wheel, or did you find it and compare?
It's poor form to make pretty serious accusations about someone and then when called on it say, "Thats me now, said my bit."

If you were ripped off, show us. If you can't then Mark's story sure seems to hold up a lot better than yours.

I could publish every message and picture i have and mark would still get the backing of the group, but yes athe picture is one mark sent me after payment and one I took when i received the car- nothing could get the one on the car to shine its totally disintegrated.

I took the injectors to the local bosch service centre who confirmed they were scrap and he voiced his opinion that they had been grouped together as its near impossible 4 could have the same issue at the same time.

Mark offered to buy injectors that were advised on here and ship them to me using my money, thats why I declined- why would I send more money when I didn't get what I paid for the first time.

I voiced genuine issues and I can validate every one, mark has made it clear that he will do nothing to correct his wrong doing so the matter is done i guess-

I will have to purchase the parts to replace over time and then start to make headway with the repairs when i can, until now its into storage.

I said iv said my bit because Unfortunately I don't have the luxury of good health and im in the middle of a flair up right now and I just don't have the energy to fight. I guess i was looking for a little support but atleast iv raised awareness.

Im always happy to chat, personal message me anyone is welcome.

[horizontally-opposed]

New on the forum so don't know either member, I have bought several low value cars sight unseen over the years, most had additional issues the sellers didn't fully cover, some major some not so. Have come to realize the seller is not always looking as deep or at the same things I am, plus they want to sell. If I choose to purchase without viewing or inspection I just have suck it up, and for the prices I'm talking about it was worth a punt even if all I got was a parts car.

I have been looking for 914 project cars for a while now and seen nothing reasonable solid for under $5000 so at $1,500 I would be expecting lots to do no mater what.

Very poor 914 project cars would make £3-4 k in the UK, so there is a simple out if your not wanting to fix up.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png)

And perhaps the best post in this unfortunate thread: If the OP is in a position to make money on the car he purchased from Mark, he should do so and consider himself luck he has that out—particularly if health is a concern. Having dealt with that in our family lately, I can only say other stuff is worth getting out of the way. A project gone sour (for whatever reason) would top that list.

The other wisdom that resonates is that 50~yo cars are going to be, by definition, an onion with some surprises to come. And that's for a concours car. A driver, or a parts car? Look out. Mark has a good reputation, which is something that's hard to earn—over time, too. Hard to see Mark choosing to ruin the reputation he's built over $1500. If anything, this thread indicates the OP got more than he paid for at $1500. A bumper goes for that…

[GregAmy]

I could publish every message and picture i have and mark would still get the backing of the group...

So...then what's your point of doing this, here?

I'm not taking sides, but these things never ever result in good conclusions. You're about to spend a lot of time and effort and likely still be unhappy with the result.

I'd recommend you take it privately, or just walk away. There's clearly no winning strategy here.

"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?"

GA

[mepstein]

Nathan - Post every email, every pic. Please.
Post the many emails of you apologizing for me having to deal with your inept shipping company. I found the thread on my phone but I want to let you “prove your point”. Also, it just reminds me how much time I wasted answering your endless questions and apologies. So yes, please post the evidence, but unlike what you posted so far, post it all, not just the self serving one liners.

I’ll post my fuel injector test kit that lets me find the leaky injectors to replace good ones. Oh, wait a minute, I don’t have such a thing because that car was my last four cylinder car and I gave away all my spares a year ago for free to another member here.

And no, even if it is super unusual to have all four injectors go bad, I’ve never seen it after sending over 200 for servicing, I’m not going to warrantee them. This car was sold as a project car, needing a lot of work, missing lots of pieces and hadn’t run for over a year.

And anybody who would like to talk to me about their concerns is welcome to. I’ve been at a couple dozen 914 events, personally met hundreds of members here and been a pretty open book since joining 10 years ago. Ive posted my work and home location and I’m pretty easy to catch up with. I also know lots of people on pelican and earlySReg and sold cars, engines and tens of thousands in parts every year on those sites. Do a search for mepstein in the classifieds of those sites as well as world. Look for complaints. I’ve been to events in California as well so I’m not just hiding away here on the easy coast. Please feel free to reach out to me....
or the guy who just joined and is spewing out crap behind a keyboard, 3000 miles away.

[rhodyguy]

I look forward to seeing this thread on the front page for the next few months.

Poster, exactly, EXACTLY, how many 914s did you look at, in person, before SETTLING on the one you bought?

[914werke]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[mrholland2]

This message edited because it failed to maintain courtesy and politeness.

[mepstein]

I look forward to seeing this thread on the front page for the next few months.

Oh god. Let’s hope not. I’m already bored of it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif)

[horizontally-opposed]

This thread…

…ain't good for anybody. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)