SOT; quality wheel bearings/hubs, for VW Tiguan Options

[fixer34]

Had my 2011 VW Tiguan in to the shop. They had to pull the intake manifold and media blast the intake valves to clean off carbon buildup. Computer was throwing misfire codes.

Anyway, while it was in, they said front wheel bearings noisy and need to be done in the near future. The shop price was $300/ea. I can find ones online for $50/ea, but not gonna go there. Seems like FAG and Timken are about in the middle on price, and pretty well known names. Any opinions/experience with these, or maybe another brand?

I have no problem doing this myself, just don't want to do it too often.

[Chris914n6]

I just bought bearings not long ago (not VW). Big American brand been using for decades. Made in China. Felt made in China. I doubt I could find not made in China so I didn't waste the time and money looking.

[fixer34]

I just bought bearings not long ago (not VW). Big American brand been using for decades. Made in China. Felt made in China. I doubt I could find not made in China so I didn't waste the time and money looking.

That's what I'm wondering. FAG is supposed to be German. Timken is big American name. But where (and by whom) are they really made. I'm finding well over a dozen 'brand names' for these bearings. They fit a lot vehicles, but I can't believe there would be that many manufacturers. So 2-3 producers that sell the same product to a dozen distributors that put their name on the box and charge what they think the market will bear.
If FAG or Timken (or one of the other higher priced ones) are made by the same company that does 'Joe's Bearings' at 1/3 the cost, I'll buy the cheaper ones and just plan to replace them every couple years.

[914Sixer]

Please read up on bearings. In the old days there was ONE standard. Today there is good, better and professional grade. Shop the top names. SKF, FAG, Timken. German made bearings are almost non existant unless they are NOS.

[Superhawk996]

I continue to chuckle at all the concern over bearings I see on the site.

Let's start with this premise. In 90% of cases, an OEM service part is the best part you're going to find. Yes OEM service parts cost WAY more. There are well founded reasons for that we'll get into later. If it were me, I'd be inclined to buy the OEM service bearing for your Tiguan from the dealer or other VW distributior of OEM parts.

The price the Mechanic is giving you is usually another markup of usually 25-40% on his price. Let's call it his handling fee. Independent mechanics rarely use OEM parts unless specifically requested.

The price of aftermarket bearings will be always be much lower than OEM parts. In part due to the reason mentioned above by 914Sixer. The specification level the hub / bearing is built to has everthing to do with cost. Yes, there are dirt cheap China knock offs and these ARE NOT built to the same stand as OE parts.

And finally let's set a premise that China made parts are not necessarily garbage. Just like any part made elsehwere in the world, it is all about who made it and to what standard. Plenty of USA made garbage out there too. Likewise plenty of OEM parts are coming out of China built with quality and held, and tested to OEM standards.

Now back to OEM parts. OEM service part markups can be on the order of 5X of production part costs. ROBBERY is what most people scream.

Why would it be that high?

Even if the part is still in production, Service parts usually have to be scheduled differently, taken off line differently, packed into service containers, and have part number stickers, labeling, and/or etched barcodes, that are different than produciton parts. Then the parts have to be shipped to service operations. There, they are stored (which is a real cost) often for years. Ultimately they are distributed on a 1 by 1 basis to the dealers and/or parts distributors (FLAPS) that order them on a small volume basis (relative to mass production).

If the parts are no longer in production, its even worse. The OEM supplier having to break into their usual current production runs of parts to re-setup production tooling and manufacture small batch runs of the service part to OEM specifications. All this is a HUGE cost add over what the production part cost. 2x-3x the orignal mass production service part price is not unheard of for small batch build OEM service parts.

Now back to hubs and bearing assemblies. An modern OEM hub bearing is held to very tight standard for things like hub runout and durability. This often involves machining the hub flange AFTER the studs are pressed in. Pressing the studs causes deformation to the hub. Aftermarket parts won't do this. It is part of the costs saved during aftermarket manufacture. Not to mention costs the aftermarket can save on materials, seals, grease, balls, cages, etc.

All of these very real OEM manufacturing costs, special handling, and distribution get embedded into that 5X markup. So let's just say you have a hub/bearing assembly that has a mass prodution cost of $30 when the cars were originally built. After all the special handling, warehousing, and distribution is it really that outrageous to think that a cost of $150 at the dealership for an OEM quality service part is all that outrageous?

Now do I like it? Nope. Like you, I'd love to be able to get OEM quality parts at aftermarket costs. It isn't in the cards though.

I sometimes use aftermarket parts for sure. But for me, it's a cost vs. risk analysis just like you find yourself doing.

Brake rotors are another great example. Do you know there are about 5-7 different types of "cast iron" that brake rotors could be made of and each has pro/cons and direct effects for NVH, durability, thermal stress cracking, effect upon that black rotor dust generation? Do you even care? Most people don't and then go for the cheapest part.

Tires? The conversation I hear most often at the tire store counter is something to the effect of "What!!! $150 dollars per tire??". No consideration given to the fact that the tires are the key interface between you and the road that set braking distances and are what often is the difference between an accident and a close call.

What I find is that most people have no knowlege or appreciation for why OEM parts cost so much, or exactly what they are getting for the extra $$.

I'll get off the soapbox now.

[Chris914n6]

Unless said part is proprietary for the OE, said part is common tech that the supplier owns and makes the 'housing' to suit a brand. So if the VW part is made by Bosch it's the same Bosch part on the aftermarket without the VW label because it's likely also used by other brands.

Examples. The intake manifold is proprietary thus aftermarket will need to show a difference, but injectors are generic so Bosch will not have 'grades'.

Dealer prices have to do with the number of hands in the supply chain.

If OEM parts are so good then why are you replacing one that failed....

[bdstone914]

Ask if that is for the bearing only or hub with bearing. If the bearing needs to be pressed into the hub you will pay for the added cost of removing and installing the bearing. Shops like to go with the option that is least likely to have a come back. Cheap is not always inexpensive.

[fixer34]

Unless said part is proprietary for the OE, said part is common tech that the supplier owns and makes the 'housing' to suit a brand. So if the VW part is made by Bosch it's the same Bosch part on the aftermarket without the VW label because it's likely also used by other brands.

Examples. The intake manifold is proprietary thus aftermarket will need to show a difference, but injectors are generic so Bosch will not have 'grades'.

Dealer prices have to do with the number of hands in the supply chain.

If OEM parts are so good then why are you replacing one that failed....

I probably should have qualfied; this is the wheel hub/bearing assembly. I'm not looking to have the old ones disassembled/repaired. Based on what I see, this particular unit is used on a bunch of VW/Audi cars for the last 10 years. So I'm guessing replacements are manufactured somewhat in volume.
That being said, I'm sure the overall quality can vary. I'm thinking the bearing itself is the most important, but unless I pull the old ones off and try to figure out who made the bearings before buying new ones, I have to go on name/reputation.

As for the OEM/original ones, I bought the car with 35k miles, it now has 115k. I doubt they were replaced before I bought it, so almost 10yrs, 115k miles, and being outside year round in the upper midwest. If I knew OEM ones would do that, I would pay the higher cost.

All good comments/discussion, guess I was looking for opinions on the 'name brands', if they have maintained their quality, or gone the cheap route in the past years. Even the top of line units only offer 3 yr warranty. Some suppliers offer 'lifetime', but I'm guessing they buy them so cheap they can afford to send 'free' replacements.

[Superhawk996]

Looking at the Tiguan bearing more closely I'll offer up a couple observations.

It is a Gen2 Hub & bearing assembly. So we are not talking about some sort of simple press in bearing. A Gen2 hub & bearing assembly can be damaged by rolling the vehicle without the CV joint attached and fully torqued just like a 914 rear bearing.

The Tiguan OEM hub has threaded in wheel studs. Per my previous comment, this is done to allow the hub face to be machined for very low lateral run out. The mounting face is two concentric rings with the wheel studs sitting in a recess to prevent any deformation from wheel stud from affecting the mounting face lateral run out.

VW OEM bearing listed at $290 each. That is a bit steep for a Gen2 hub and bearing. That price wouldn't be out of line for other types of designs like a Gen3 bearing but it is high for a Gen2 design.

There are some really cheap looking NAPA aftermarket parts with pressed in wheel studs. As stated earlier these will result in cheaper manufacturing costs but will result in higher lateral runout of the hub. Who knows what else they were willing to compromise on.

I also see some decent aftermarket hubs from FAG that have a lot of key characteristics in common with the VW OEM part. Made in Slovakia. Could actually be VW's OE supplier and it appears they have widespread applications. So maybe not a bad compromise at about $94-$103 per side.

As stated previouly it's all about the risk vs. reward.

In this case after looking more closely, maybe I'd go for the aftermarket FAG but definately not the NAPA part.

[Superhawk996]

Typical bearing design life - 10 years / 150,000 miles with B10 life. B10 life is the life at which 10% of the population of parts will have failed.

There is a distribution to life. Highly dependent on driving styles, road conditions like potholes, salt induced corrosion, dirt roads vs. paved, etc.

You didn't do bad at 115k. I've had some make it to 160k on vehicles like minivan's that dont get a lot of lateral G! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wife's PT cruiser once had 215K and wheel bearings were never replaced before the front subframe crossmember disolved making it no longer fit for the road. She's not known for pulling high G on cloverleafs!

[fixer34]

Typical bearing design life - 10 years / 150,000 miles with B10 life. B10 life is the life at which 10% of the population of parts will have failed.

There is a distribution to life. Highly dependent on driving styles, road conditions like potholes, salt induced corrosion, dirt roads vs. paved, etc.

You didn't do bad at 115k. I've had some make it to 160k on vehicles like minivan's that dont get a lot of lateral G! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Wife's PT cruiser once had 215K and wheel bearings were never replaced before the front subframe crossmember disolved making it no longer fit for the road. She's not known for pulling high G on cloverleafs!

Just the kind of information I was looking for, on both of your posts. I'm happy with the 10yrs/115k. Garage said they are a little noisy, but no play yet, so it can wait until warmer weather. Yea, it's a turbo so 'maybe' I push it a little on the curves and highway ramps...

The FAG replacements were on my short-list; I pretty much ruled out the $50 ones since I expect to have the car a while yet. Was also thinking the VW branded were a bit high (I doubt VW manufactures their own...)

Thanks again.

[Chris914n6]

That works out to be a good example since I used to work as a Dealership parts guy (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

FAG sells the part for $50 to Autozone, who doubles the price to $100 to you.

FAG sells the part for $50 to VW, who doubles the price to $100 to the Dealer, who doubles the price to $200 to you, or $150 wholesale (25% off). But it's VW, not Nissan where I worked, so $200=$300 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sheeplove.gif)

Another example: Akebono is OEM for alot of Asian cars like my Nissan. The Akebono water pump I got from RockAuto had the Nissan logo half ground off, otherwise exactly the same. So if you know the OEM you can get the same quality part without the markup. 10 brands sold pumps but looking at the pics only 3 actual choices.

People want to buy the cheapest part that will get the job done and it likely won't fail until the next owner.

If your VW was made in Mexico then it probably didn't have a German bearing in the first place.