Newbie wants to build one. (I must be crazy.), These are my goals in building a car…where should I start? Options

[SavingManuals]

I am new to 914World and I have been reading what I can find on 914World that pertains to building a 914. I am hoping that the 914World family can help me with some decisions to define a path to build the car I have in mind.

---> Starting with the pieces of the puzzle that I know something about….

MY 914 HISTORY
I am in my early fifties now, but my dad had a Summer Yellow 1975 1.8 in the late 70’s. I loved that car and I’ve always wanted to own one…now is the time to start down that path.

MY SKILL SET
I’ve spent a couple years turning a wrench on BMW E46’s. I’m about to replace engine and transmission support arms and mounts on one that was in a front end accident that tore those support arms. I have the bumper and all the accessories off the front of the engine at this point. That said, I won’t hesitate to take an engine apart at some point. I don’t have the tools or skills to do fabrication or welding at this point, but I’d like to learn. I expect to pay someone to do what I can't, at least early on.

MY BUDGET & TIMELINE
I have divided my path into (at least) two phases because my budget is small. It is also one major reason that I am leaning towards building vs buying. I will be making progress as finances allow. I can see myself not having a driver for a year or much more, though I expect that the insights of 914World will help me set a realistic timeline based on my currently defined goals and finances.


---> This is what I THINK I would like to end up with based on my current knowledge, when all the dust settles: the FINAL PHASE car….

FINAL PHASE 914

How I plan to use it: Fair-weather-only toy, for fun on back roads and (hopefully) reliable enough to drive four hours to see friends. I doubt that I will AX it and pure racing will not be part of this car’s mission.

Basic attributes: GT tribute. Five-lug Fuchs. Fender flares. Porsche 6cyl. Maybe safer than stock…some version of a roll cage or other reinforcement strategies? A balance of performance, reliability, and relative ease of maintenance. Basically, I want a GT that leans toward ease of ownership/maintenance instead of high-performance if I have to choose. For example, if a 3.2/6 will give me neck-snapping performance but it would require a rebuild every other year, then I would go with a lesser engine that will be more durable and cheaper to maintain. Also, if there are potential modifications that are well-known to make a 914 more durable or less expensive to maintain, I would strongly consider them.

Expectations: I would prefer that it appear as original as possible, while still attempting to accommodate my other goals. I don’t need to fool anyone with the final product, I just want to be proud of the outcome and enjoy driving it.


---> Depending upon how the project progresses, I am considering an INTERIM PHASE driver….

INTERIM PHASE 914
I have identified a finished body (anything to be body-colored) as the first priority for how I’d like this to proceed. If possible, I would like any body mods necessary for the FINAL PHASE 6cyl version to be done before paint, if they won’t substantially impede the path to my INTERIM PHASE. Depending upon how quickly I can find AND FUND a 6cyl engine, I may want to opt for a 4cyl in this phase. I could see myself buying a second donor car with a 4cyl, so that I can make progress towards the FINAL PHASE while possibly building it up enough to have an INTERIM PHASE driver.



SO, WHERE TO BEGIN?
I am considering starting with a body stripped of everything but its identification tags. Considering how easily these bodies rust, I’d like to seal one up with a finish that would never require me to strip it down again…ever. (An exterior respray down the line? Sure.) I would like to collect all the parts that would need to be painted the body color, so that everything would be painted/finished at once. I may consider extra paint protection options, but I am unfamiliar with available options in this arena. Considering my unusual(?) approach to this build, where does everyone believe I should start?

THANK YOU for any wisdom you can share in light of my goals, budget, timeline, etc.!!!!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)

[Montreal914]

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You will have to be a little more clear because you say your budget is small. For me someone joining the 914 life with a small budget means the most solid shell you can get with any kind of running 4 cylinder engine. 5-10k$ driver (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) Lot's of fun to be had and excellent way to learn about your car at a "reasonable" cost.

What you are describing as your goal is a 40-70k$ car (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

911 running engines can be bought for 10-15k$ @mepstein might be able to guide you.

A set of flares is around 1k$ from what I could remember, but the real cost is in the installation. Then, flares mean special rockers and valences. Fuchs will be 2k$ and five lugs will quickly add up.

Again, what does small budget means for you?

Good luck with your project! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[mepstein]

It’s usually cheaper to by it done than to build from scratch. The newer bigger sixes will typically last longer and require less maintenance than the smaller engines. I would read through a couple dozen build threads on this site and you will learn tons.

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[Cairo94507]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Well. that was a nice introduction with some stated goals.

I would read every build thread and start with a sheet of paper and begin to identify components you will want/need.

The first thing you want is as solid a chassis as you can find. Regardless of assertions, "rust free" be prepared to do some rust repair. I would begin by stripping the chassis of parts and having it media blasted so you can see all of the ugly that needs work. That would be my first chapter of the build. Get the chassis back to spec and while you are doing that you can add a chassis stiffening system that meets your needs. On my '71 914-6 I chose to go with the inner long reinforcement kit from Mad Dog racing. That was the only chassis stiffening I did to my car.

Then identify the engine you want. I went with a pretty stock 3.2, refreshed that fully and switched to 964 cams. I also chose to keep the Motronic injection for better reliability and ease of use. Turn the key and it starts. No fuel leaks, smell, etc.

I kept the 901 transaxle and had Dr. Evil rebuild it and changed the gears to better suit the power and torque of the 3.2.

Suspension kept mostly stock. I installed Bilstein inserts and shocks, 140 pound rear springs, later 914 front & rear sway bars, Elephant Racing rubber bushings all around, we raised the spindles 17mm so I could lower the car 1.25" and not have suspension geometry issues.

We went with early 911 S aluminum front calipers and my stock 914-6 rear calipers with the GT kit installed. Then we went with vented and drilled rotors all around. PMB did all of the brake components and we also went with all new steel and rubber lines, 19mm master cylinder, etc.

We went with the Patrick Motorsports front GT oil cooler set up with a full custom all aluminum shroud, thermostat and GT hard lines down the driver's long.

For exhaust I went 100% Ben's (MB911) stainless 1.62" large tube heat exchangers and free flow SS muffler.

Don't forget you need to do gauges that will work with your engine.

Well, that ought to be enough to give you some ideas and something to consider for your build.

Good luck and have fun,
Michael (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[SavingManuals]

Read threads? I'll dive in!!! Thanks (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[sixnotfour]

For example, if a 3.2/6 will give me neck-snapping performance but it would require a rebuild every other year,

3.2 generally, only requires a top end tune up...solid as they come..

[rhodyguy]

In what kind of time frame do you want this to come together? Flares? Pick the color now. You're going to spend 60k+ on a conversion when the dust settles. Real 6? No telling. There are those more well versed on the subject than me. Spend 35-40 now and drive.

[SavingManuals]

Thanks gents, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. There is nothing better for my plan than candid input!

[rhodyguy]

Read up on that black car in the classifieds. That's the path.

[SavingManuals]

In what kind of time frame do you want this to come together? Flares? Pick the color now. You're going to spend 60k+ on a conversion when the dust settles. Real 6? No telling. There are those more well versed on the subject than me. Spend 35-40 now and drive.

My time frame is as flexible as it needs to be to get my desired end result. Unfortunately my budget doesn't allow me to buy and drive, plus I like the idea of seeing it come together over time. For me, the process will likely be as rewarding as the end product. I may need to wait to acquire parts or have parts built/rebuilt, but that doesn't worry me too much.

[SavingManuals]

For example, if a 3.2/6 will give me neck-snapping performance but it would require a rebuild every other year,

3.2 generally, only requires a top end tune up...solid as they come..

Thanks...I honestly suspected as much, but thanks for confirming!

[jaredmcginness]

Welcome to the World. Best place to be for these cars.

All of this depends on your “defined budget.” A sympathetic restoration will take you the better part of a year. If you are a one-man-show
- with plenty of time on your hands -
I think the car you are describing would be north of a 2 year build.

My advice, if you want to drive now.... Spend ~$10k on a drivers 4 cylinder, start collecting parts. As time progresses, do the 5 lug swap, and focus on one goal at a time. Until you get where you want to be!

Tons of great threads here in the Garage!


P.S. if you do your own metal work, you will save a massive amount of money. You won’t save headaches, though.

[r_towle]

1) buy car
2) buy 4 jack stands
3) place car on jack stands ( like all the rest of us have done)
4) enjoy the process

[SavingManuals]

Thanks for a warm welcome, all.

@Montreal914 , my overall budget? I suppose $40k makes sense by the end of it. I have about $5-15k to start, depending upon how quickly I ramp up.

@mepstein – I suppose I could save up for a year and buy, but maybe that’s where I’m somewhat impatient…I’d love to get started on a project, regardless of the pace of my progress. Of course, I guess a 914 is a perennial project, even when you start with a running one.

@Cairo94507 – Your summary is helpful in giving me an idea of the project scope I might expect. Your mix of stock and upgrades/mods helps me conceive of the possible build detail permutations that can exist.

Jeff

[SavingManuals]

1) buy car
2) buy 4 jack stands
3) place car on jack stands ( like all the rest of us have done)
4) enjoy the process

Actually, that seems to sum it up pretty well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

[SavingManuals]

Welcome to the World. Best place to be for these cars.

All of this depends on your “defined budget.” A sympathetic restoration will take you the better part of a year. If you are a one-man-show
- with plenty of time on your hands -
I think the car you are describing would be north of a 2 year build.

My advice, if you want to drive now.... Spend ~$10k on a drivers 4 cylinder, start collecting parts. As time progresses, do the 5 lug swap, and focus on one goal at a time. Until you get where you want to be!

Tons of great threads here in the Garage!


P.S. if you do your own metal work, you will save a massive amount of money. You won’t save headaches, though.

As I read more, I'm thinking I like my idea of starting by creating a clean-slate body in my color of choice. THEN, buying a second car with maybe severe body rust issues(?) and basically doing a full transplant to my clean body. I'd have the confidence of knowing I was starting with an essentially perfectly solid foundation, which would ease my mind significantly. Not having to wonder whether the body was rusting away would be worth it to me.

Regardless, I'll keep reading to learn more!

[bkrantz]

Welcome, Jeff.

One fundamental question: what is the ratio of fun and satisfaction you want from rebuilding and repair vs. maintaining and driving a complete car?

Like others have said, buying something already done is likely cheaper than building, at almost any budget level. So if driving is more important, you could put money into a 914 jar for a few years, buy something you like, and end up ahead financially.

But if building is important, then money spend on parts and services is the cost of having that sort of fun.

[SavingManuals]

Welcome, Jeff.

One fundamental question: what is the ratio of fun and satisfaction you want from rebuilding and repair vs. maintaining and driving a complete car?

Like others have said, buying something already done is likely cheaper than building, at almost any budget level. So if driving is more important, you could put money into a 914 jar for a few years, buy something you like, and end up ahead financially.

But if building is important, then money spend on parts and services is the cost of having that sort of fun.

Thank you for welcoming me!

Yes, you captured the essence of my decision process. I get great satisfaction out of improving/creating/building, so my decision to build is rather straightforward for me.

I mentioned in my intro that I have been working on E46 BMW's...they are filling the need for a manual on a daily basis. I have a daily 325i 5MT and a couple project cars; they range from 2002 to 2005 model years. One reason I am pursuing a 914 build is that the BMW E46 community is awash with kids who modify them until they are unrecognizable, race or "drift" them, and then throw them away seemingly as if the cars were Mountain Dew bottles. It has grown disheartening for me...I hate to see the cars wasted en masse. Most of what I've read on 914World reveals a common thread of basic reverence for the 914. That's my kind of auto enthusiast.

Also, I had just begun reading your build thread...thanks for posting with so much detail!

[Steve]

Usually 3.2 motors are bulletproof. My 3.2 is a Euro 1984 motor. Never overhauled and has over 200k miles on it and was raced on the track for four years. Recently I replaced all fuel injection hoses, sensors and had Patrick Motor Sports replace all the cam housing seals. It did have some annoying oil leaks. Other than that, the compression is still good and it runs great.

[mb911]

Welcome to the 914 world. Read through my thread. Similar process to your thinking. Let me know if I can help.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...06&hl=Mb911