Modern trailing arms for the 914?, 986 carriers/calipers/e-brake, more adjustability, more tire? |
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Modern trailing arms for the 914?, 986 carriers/calipers/e-brake, more adjustability, more tire? |
Chris914n6 |
Feb 24 2021, 08:28 PM
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#181
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,287 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Steel bolts in aluminum parts equals stupid 4 hour disassemble times.
GOOD NEWS!!!! 15" fake Fuchs fit the stock rear by a pinky tip. Important to know that the thickness of the spacer is also the caliper to spoke clearance. No spacer = scratched caliper. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1614220078.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1614220079.2.jpg) Weight whole ~ 25.5 lbs. Weight with the mount on the ground ~ 23 lbs. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1614220079.3.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1614220080.4.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1614220080.5.jpg) More to come |
horizontally-opposed |
Feb 24 2021, 11:07 PM
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#182
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
I’ve put lots of 15’s on cars with Boxster calipers. SirAndy has Boxster calipers f&r with 15x7 cookies. They have to be regular Boxster calipers and not Boxster S calipers. Yep, there are a lot of cars out there with 986 calipers under 15s—so we know they'll work up front with 911 rotors. The question is whether 15s will go over a 986 rear rotor that's 0.25~ inch larger in diameter and a caliper that's presumably moved out similarly. Looks like it might. Chris, I wish I had measured how many washers I put in there during the test fit (will scrounge around to see if I did), but it seems that 10mm to 22mm spacers are commonly used to take advantage of the 911R's offset to get a lot of tire into narrow-body 911s and 914s. So if it's only scratching the caliper without a spacer, that might be fine. Wish I lived closer to stop by with a 15x6 "deep six," and that I still had a loose 911R 15x7 or two. Aftermarket 15s are a whole other kettle of fish. Nonetheless, very interesting, and that many parts bolted to the carrier comes up lighter than I would have expected… |
ClayPerrine |
Feb 25 2021, 08:25 AM
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#183
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,367 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
The Boxster brakes and Carrera rotors are total overkill for our cars. Not that I have a problem with it. Really.. "Total Overkill".... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) I have Boxster brakes and they are not big enough for my car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) |
horizontally-opposed |
Feb 25 2021, 08:43 AM
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#184
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
The Boxster brakes and Carrera rotors are total overkill for our cars. Not that I have a problem with it. Really.. "Total Overkill".... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) I have Boxster brakes and they are not big enough for my car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Hey 4.0/Vonnen man—you're just in time to do some dreaming. Cuz' if we're gonna do some dreaming… The hot setup would be ceramic-composite rotors that work with 986 calipers. Suspect they would not only be enough for higher-power cars, but would also delete a huge amount of unsprung weight and…90-95% of the brake dust too. Downside is the usual one, though it's a lot less than the $20-30k+ seen with a set of PCCB rotors after the fact. And once you've tried PCCB, it's hard to go back. Initial bite is fabulous, and say goodbye to fade forever. Poking around, it looks like there's a vendor who can supply them for $6-8k a set depending on the size of the order. I believe they're unlike PCCB in that they aren't a mere skin—so they can be redone. If they ever need to be… Other downside is they may need to be closer to 11.75~ inches in diameter. Their smallest diameter currently is 12 inches or just under. Questions around how much smaller they can get did come up, and it's gonna to matter with 15s. Otherwise, you probably need 930 brakes for that 4.0. And they be heavy and costly too. Now add the cost of replacement rotors and pads from time to time… |
ClayPerrine |
Feb 25 2021, 09:07 AM
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#185
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,367 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
The Boxster brakes and Carrera rotors are total overkill for our cars. Not that I have a problem with it. Really.. "Total Overkill".... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) I have Boxster brakes and they are not big enough for my car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) Hey 4.0/Vonnen man—you're just in time to do some dreaming. Cuz' if we're gonna do some dreaming… The hot setup would be ceramic-composite rotors that work with 986 calipers. Suspect they would not only be enough for higher-power cars, but would also delete a huge amount of unsprung weight and…90-95% of the brake dust too. Downside is the usual one, though it's a lot less than the $20-30k+ seen with a set of PCCB rotors after the fact. And once you've tried PCCB, it's hard to go back. Initial bite is fabulous, and say goodbye to fade forever. Poking around, it looks like there's a vendor who can supply them for $6-8k a set depending on the size of the order. I believe they're unlike PCCB in that they aren't a mere skin—so they can be redone. If they ever need to be… Other downside is they may need to be closer to 11.75~ inches in diameter. Their smallest diameter currently is 12 inches or just under. Questions around how much smaller they can get did come up, and it's gonna to matter with 15s. Otherwise, you probably need 930 brakes for that 4.0. And they be heavy and costly too. Now add the cost of replacement rotors and pads from time to time… I have 991 C4S calipers for the fronts that were rebuilt by PMB. I am moving the front Boxster calipers to the rear, after they get rebuilt and powedercoated to match the fronts. I have not installed the fronts yet. Still looking for the right pads. |
horizontally-opposed |
Feb 25 2021, 09:29 AM
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#186
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
I have 991 C4S calipers for the fronts that were rebuilt by PMB. I am moving the front Boxster calipers to the rear, after they get rebuilt and powedercoated to match the fronts. I have not installed the fronts yet. Still looking for the right pads. Guessing 16s…at least? What rotors? I mildly despise some of Porsche's more recent calipers, as many of them require caliper removal for pad changes. I get the argument for stiffer calipers, but when customers are creating stud kits to avoid damaging aluminum threads in the uprights during regular pad changes with track use, I have to question the logic. Fine (ish) for a street car, not so fine for a track day car. Your 4.0-liter aside (!), I have to think 986 2.5 calipers front and rear on old-fashioned Carrera rotors are an excellent setup for the majority of hot rod 914s. Light, modern, and more than sufficient to slow 2,900-3,200+ Boxsters with 200-225+ hp on back roads where I pounded them again and again without running into fade. They held up where a 385-hp 996 GT3 on iron rotors eventually began to get pretty smelly—a precursor to fade. Two 996 GT2s with 456 hp, far more torque, and PCCB didn't bat an eye. |
Mark Henry |
Feb 25 2021, 10:07 AM
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#187
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that's what I do! Group: Members Posts: 20,065 Joined: 27-December 02 From: Port Hope, Ontario Member No.: 26 Region Association: Canada |
I'd really like to know if a 17x7 ET23 would fit on a narrow body?
This guy on the bird has a GB coming up on Maxilite fuchs that are the nicest repops I've seen. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...s-replicas.html |
SirAndy |
Feb 25 2021, 11:00 AM
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#188
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,581 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
Yep, there are a lot of cars out there with 986 calipers under 15s—so we know they'll work up front with 911 rotors. The question is whether 15s will go over a 986 rear rotor that's 0.25~ inch larger in diameter and a caliper that's presumably moved out similarly. http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=170890 As mentioned above, i had to machine the RJ adapters to center the calipers over the 24mm Carrera vented rotors. That's plenty of rotor to stop a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
horizontally-opposed |
Feb 25 2021, 11:30 AM
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#189
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
As mentioned above, i had to machine the RJ adapters to center the calipers over the 24mm Carrera vented rotors. That's plenty of rotor to stop a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) ^ Fully agree. (Unless it's got something truly wild in the engine bay. Like a twin-turbo V8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ) |
mepstein |
Feb 25 2021, 12:32 PM
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#190
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914-6 GT in waiting Group: Members Posts: 19,142 Joined: 19-September 09 From: Landenberg, PA/Wilmington, DE Member No.: 10,825 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
As mentioned above, i had to machine the RJ adapters to center the calipers over the 24mm Carrera vented rotors. That's plenty of rotor to stop a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) ^ Fully agree. (Unless it's got something truly wild in the engine bay. Like a twin-turbo V8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ) HP has no bearing on braking. Only mass and velocity. |
horizontally-opposed |
Feb 25 2021, 12:36 PM
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#191
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
As mentioned above, i had to machine the RJ adapters to center the calipers over the 24mm Carrera vented rotors. That's plenty of rotor to stop a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) ^ Fully agree. (Unless it's got something truly wild in the engine bay. Like a twin-turbo V8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ) HP has no bearing on braking. Only mass and velocity. Horsepower/torque has a big bearing on velocity… (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I've learned this over and over in testing. A prime example was the 991.2 Carrera line cars, which left each corner and arrived at the next a whole lot faster than their NA predecessors. Brake fade was an obvious weak point on a closed rally stage at the press launch in Tenerife. |
ClayPerrine |
Feb 25 2021, 12:41 PM
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#192
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Life's been good to me so far..... Group: Admin Posts: 15,367 Joined: 11-September 03 From: Hurst, TX. Member No.: 1,143 Region Association: NineFourteenerVille |
HP has no bearing on braking. Only mass and velocity. Agreed.. but extreme power to weight ratios can result in an extremely high velocity in a short period of time. So bigger brakes are a requirement to shed that aforementioned velocity in an equally short time. |
Chris914n6 |
Feb 25 2021, 12:47 PM
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#193
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,287 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
(Unless it's got something truly wild in the engine bay. Like a twin-turbo V8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ) Brakes are a function of weight, not HP. People upgrade brakes with HP because they tend to drive more aggressive and push the fade limits or have stickier tires that can handle the forces. Basically, match the brakes to the weight + tires + driver. A narrow body 914 doesn't need Box calipers, but they are an improvement in so many other ways that it makes sense. |
horizontally-opposed |
Feb 25 2021, 12:55 PM
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#194
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
Brakes are a function of weight, not HP. People upgrade brakes with HP because they tend to drive more aggressive and push the fade limits or have stickier tires that can handle the forces. Basically, match the brakes to the weight + tires + driver. A narrow body 914 doesn't need Box calipers, but they are an improvement in so many other ways that it makes sense. ^ This. And very well stated. Reached out to an engineer with an impressive CV and a deep working knowledge of the 914 re: engineering a trailing arm that could link a 986 carrier to the 914's pickup point. The 986 carrier idea may ultimately be compatible with 16-inch wheels and above (which makes it useless to me), but I'm curious to see what he says. |
stownsen914 |
Feb 25 2021, 08:29 PM
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#195
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 905 Joined: 3-October 06 From: Ossining, NY Member No.: 6,985 Region Association: None |
As mentioned above, i had to machine the RJ adapters to center the calipers over the 24mm Carrera vented rotors. That's plenty of rotor to stop a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) ^ Fully agree. (Unless it's got something truly wild in the engine bay. Like a twin-turbo V8. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif) ) HP has no bearing on braking. Only mass and velocity. But HP has a little something to do with what velocity your car will attain (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . So I'd argue more hp can use more brakes. |
horizontally-opposed |
Mar 1 2021, 02:01 PM
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#196
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
...
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horizontally-opposed |
Mar 1 2021, 02:01 PM
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#197
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
Unsurprisingly, the engineer I checked with said modding a pair of 914 trailing arms made more sense than engineering > tooling > manufacturing new arms. Which is, of course, is 1,000% correct based on the economics of a one-off project.
I still think there's a (small) market for a better solution for the 914, given: 1) The number of improved spring plate options available for 911s (yes, a lot more cars, but I doubt any of the offerings are made in four-figure batches, as the % of 911 owners interested in tossing their stock arms probably isn't huge. Also, consider the production numbers: Porsche built its 1,000,000th 911 in 2017, but a lot of those 911s are water-cooled; now consider that 115,000+ 914s were built over seven years). 2) Eric Shea's ultimate five-lug conversion thread—which really should be a Classic—has 63,000 views since 2010 while this thread has 5,000+ views since…January 26 (even if one accounts for the peanut gallery/trainwreck aspect) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) |
SirAndy |
Mar 1 2021, 03:16 PM
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#198
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Resident German Group: Admin Posts: 41,581 Joined: 21-January 03 From: Oakland, Kalifornia Member No.: 179 Region Association: Northern California |
... which really should be a Classic ... It is and has been for many years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) |
horizontally-opposed |
Mar 1 2021, 03:29 PM
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#199
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 3,430 Joined: 12-May 04 From: San Francisco Member No.: 2,058 Region Association: None |
... which really should be a Classic ... It is and has been for many years (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif) Ah, apologies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) |
Chris914n6 |
Mar 12 2021, 09:27 PM
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#200
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Jackstands are my life. Group: Members Posts: 3,287 Joined: 14-March 03 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 431 Region Association: Southwest Region |
Stock rear fender and why some tires don't fit well. Just over 9" of total tire space.
Driver side: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1615606060.1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1615606061.2.jpg) Pass side: (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1615606061.3.jpg) (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/live.staticflickr.com-431-1615606061.4.jpg) |
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