Need help, Hell hole rust Options

[Ebradley]

Hi
Still looking for a good shop to fix my hell hole “surface rust” issues. I have a 74 (2.0) with original miles under 110,000. 2nd owner spent 10k re-painting but never addressed the rusted battery tray and surface rust in hell hole. Any recommendations for good shop in Los Angeles vicinity? Thnks

[Rand]

He said surface rust.

A Beavis and Butthead image would have come to mind if I ever watched it. Well, just their snickers anyway. Move along.

[Robarabian]

Look Up Marcs German Auto in Fullerton.
633 W Valencia Dr
Fullerton, CA 92832
United States

He works on alot of member cars and I have been in his shop when he was doing hellhole repairs to other cars. He has been working 914's for a long time and I believe he is a member here somewhere.

His daily driver is a 914..It's a start.

[Ebradley]

Look Up Marcs German Auto in Fullerton.
633 W Valencia Dr
Fullerton, CA 92832
United States

He works on alot of member cars and I have been in his shop when he was doing hellhole repairs to other cars. He has been working 914's for a long time and I believe he is a member here somewhere.

His daily driver is a 914..It's a start.

Thanks Rob

[r_towle]

He said surface rust.

A Beavis and Butthead image would have come to mind if I ever watched it. Well, just their snickers anyway. Move along.

He he
Surface rust
He he

[bkrantz]

Hey, at least he put it in quotes.

[Ebradley]

Any other recommendations for a shop that is trustworthy to repair the rust issues?
Thnks

[Ebradley]

anyone?

[Ebradley]

No other shops in Southern California anyone recommends?

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I think people are hell hole'd out.

Hell hole is rarely just surface rust.

Rust repairs are huge $$. Have bags of cash, you'll find a shop without much trouble. It's not rocket science, just very laborious and at shop rate of $100/hr it gets pricey fast.

If you're looking for cheap, you're going to run out of options and recommendations fast. Very few shops want to deal with these sorts of jobs on anything other than a time a materials basis.

There is probably a reason the previous owner spent $10K on paint but didn't dare dive into the dreaded hell hole

And just in case this has been a cold reception on some of your 1st Newbie posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Usually more engaging posts but you've sort of posted about rust repairs at the wrong time. By end of winter many of us are tired of working on rust. My car has been on jackstands for 2 1/2 years now for rust repairs. I'm even tired about taling about rust and metal fabrication is my thing! . (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

[Ebradley]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I think people are hell hole'd out.

Hell hole is rarely just surface rust.

Rust repairs are huge $$. Have bags of cash, you'll find a shop without much trouble. It's not rocket science, just very laborious and at shop rate of $100/hr it gets pricey fast.

If you're looking for cheap, you're going to run out of options and recommendations fast. Very few shops want to deal with these sorts of jobs on anything other than a time a materials basis.

And just in case this has been a cold reception on some of your 1st Newbie posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Usually more engaging posts but you've sort of posted about rust repairs at the wrong time. My car has been on jackstands for 2 1/2 years now for rust repairs. I'm even tired about taling about rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The car and paint are both in perfect condition. I wonder if there is something I can apply to at least prevent the rust from getting worse?

[Superhawk996]

Not to be argumentative but there are no 50 old year cars in perfect condition.

Otherwise you woudn't be looking for help - no? Seriously, 1st step of teener addiction is to be honest with yourself. Admit you have a problem. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

All joking aside, there are things you can do yourself if you're inclined.

There is no easy fix. They all involve lots of $$ or lots of sweat. Sometimes both.

However, it all depends on what skills and tools (if any) you have at your disposal. Nothing to be ashamed of to admit you have neither. We all started there.

Assuming you want to do what you can your self, a wire wheel, Ospho, and some 2K epoxy primer and 2K paint will go a long way. The problem is access to the area is (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif). It's even worse with a battery tray in the way, and even worse yet again with the engine in the way.

See why this gets pricey quick? All the above ASSUMED that the rust truly is surface rust. Only gets worse if it is not.

Honestly, I'd say spend some time on this forum, get familiar with what's involved. Look at the worst cases.

Watch Ian's videos on YouTube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N_i7l0vhr4


Assess honestly what you're willing to tackle and what you have to oursource.

[mgphoto]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif) I think people are hell hole'd out.

Hell hole is rarely just surface rust.

Rust repairs are huge $$. Have bags of cash, you'll find a shop without much trouble. It's not rocket science, just very laborious and at shop rate of $100/hr it gets pricey fast.

If you're looking for cheap, you're going to run out of options and recommendations fast. Very few shops want to deal with these sorts of jobs on anything other than a time a materials basis.

And just in case this has been a cold reception on some of your 1st Newbie posts. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welcome.png) Usually more engaging posts but you've sort of posted about rust repairs at the wrong time. My car has been on jackstands for 2 1/2 years now for rust repairs. I'm even tired about taling about rust. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)

The car and paint are both in perfect condition. I wonder if there is something I can apply to at least prevent the rust from getting worse?

There are plenty of rust encapsulators on the market, Navel Jelly, 3M has a product I’ve used for a temporary fix. I’ve also used POR-15 but you really can’t paint over rust, you need to remove the rust, acid treat the metal, clean the surface and paint, pretty much standard paint procedure.
There isn’t any rust on a 914 that can’t be fixed, just takes time and effort.

[BK911]

The car and paint are both in perfect condition. I wonder if there is something I can apply to at least prevent the rust from getting worse?

Phosphoric acid. Aka metal prep. Maybe yours is a unicorn and can be treated then painted. Most aren't. Post some pics.

[bkrantz]

Borrow or buy a bore scope and try to see inside the long, below the battery and hell hole. You should have a hole about 3/4 inch in diameter "uphill" from the battery tray support, just in front of the trunk bulkhead. Use this for camera access to the inside of the long.

If you have lived a perfect life and get really lucky, you might find that rust you see on the top of the hell hole is truly just surface rust.

[Ebradley]

I appreciate all the advice. I don’t have time, tools, or the expertise for this and that’s why I’m asking. The car is in great shape other than the hell hole that was not addressed during the 10k paint job. Here are a few pics.

[Ebradley]

Sorry for the repeat pics.

[Superhawk996]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) Nice car.

It's a shame they didn't address the hell hole at the time of the repaint. You clearly got some crud going on down in there under the battery. What it is . . . is very hard to say based on that photo. Looking at the rest of the engine bay, there is a decent chance it's not terrible.

My thought would be leave it alone for a little while. Drive the car. Enjoy it. Save up some money to do it right. Even if you have the money now, I'd still be inclined to drive it before sweating the hell hole which will take it off the road for a bit.

The thing that can answer your underlying concern is to take a screwdriver or awl and poke the sheetmetal that is already rusted (not advising you to scratch up existing paint) down in the hell hole and see if it flexes or begins to poke though. If it is rock solid, get yourself a good AGM battery (no need to conribute to more corrosion with Pb-Acid battery) and drive it. Use a inspection mirror, or your phone on a stick to get a video of that area under the battery that is so hard to see.

If you want another data point, remove the passenger side outer rocker panel and look at the longitudinal. If thre is significant corrosion there, then you know the hell hole is leaking water and/or acid into the long. A solid long will help justify that you don't have a need for an immediate hell hole fix.

When you're ready to attack the hell hole either with a decent sized check and/or time off the road, you won't have a problem finding a shop to do the work.

What you're likely to find a problem with is finding a shop that is only willing to address the hell hole. Personally, I wouldn't do it without a complete engine bay repaint but that's just me. That isn't cheap by the time you pull the engine, and all the little fiddly bits (seals, MPS, hoses, tape lines, electrical, engine compartment lid, grates, etc. No one wants to be responsible for moving your electrical harness around and taping it only to find they cracked two age brittle wires and have now created a short or Fuel injection problems that they are responsible for troubleshooting and fixing. Same if they destroy an age hardened engine seal. Are you paying for that or are they? I'm not a professional paint shop but I can't imagine they would take on the work for less than an 80 hour job. At $100/hr shop rate that is $8k. I can only state that there is no way I could complete what I've outlined in 40 hours so I'd estimate on the high side. What if it went to 120 hours?

I think that is the magnitude of what you're dealing with. Hopefully others join in an challenge me. Maybe I'm overly conservative?

[rhodyguy]

Are you able to remove the battery and the rectangular gray box, brain/ECU, and show some pictures of the actual area? Shots looking upward at the bottom of the HH would be nice. That throttle cable strap looks pretty original. Never presume anything. The good or the bad. Purchase a good rust penatrent.

[mbseto]

Take a close look at the door gaps on the passenger side, take a measurement. Then put a jack under the jack point on that side and gently start to raise it while watching the door gaps closely. If you can see any change in the gaps, stop - you have your answer at that point. Otherwise, go until the car is off the ground and measure the gaps in the same places. If the measurements haven't changed, I would say you have no IMMEDIATE problems. That doesn't mean there is NO problem, but maybe you can take your time to investigate. The boroscope is a good idea, you can get USB scopes that will plug directly into your smart phone and record video for about $20.