Irrational Exuberance: a ‘71 restoration thread Options

[mda123]

Hello 914World,

I’ve finally decided to start a restoration thread for my engine/transmission-less ‘71 914. Bought from a 914World user as a project for me and my stepson (but mostly me) to work on and goodness knows I’m going to need a lot of help along the way. Any DC-area/MidAtlantic folks around?

Here’s how she sits today. As I mentioned, no engine or trans but that’s fine since I was always looking for a swap candidate. Lotta work before engine questions become paramount but currently thinking air-cooled six swap of some kind or Subaru turbo four swap if I go water cooled.

Body is reasonably straight. Bumpers are dented but body panels are mostly intact and there seems to be little body rust. Paint is pretty rough: bubbling, adhesion problems, overspray, etc. Current thinking is a full Irish Green repaint when the time comes.

To my amateur eye, it’s probably a 6 or 7 out of 10 on the rust scale (like a 4 if you grade on a 914 curve). Hell hole is remarkably not awful and the longs appear solid, but battery tray is a goner. Frunk and trunk pans have holes. Pedal box area is a mess. Seam between floor pan and front kick panel is pretty bad. Frunk seal channels are a disaster. Driver’s side headlight bucket is bad.

My intention is to restore it to the point where it’s a very nice driver, but I have no interest in concours-level anything and I’m not striving for full originality.

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[mda123]

Not sure why some of the photos are flipped, but anyway...

Here's what I've done so far.

-Stripped out interior
-Scoped interior of longs (looks pretty good)
-Cleaned/restored vinyl as best I can
-Took stripping disc to problem areas on bodywork to test for rust
-Knocked off some of the bondo in areas where paint adhesion is a problem
-Wire wheeled pans and channel areas to highlight rust

Now here's where I need help. The one section of floor pan that I tried wire wheeling took forever and I don't feel like I did an even remotely comprehensive job. I slathered on some Ospho anyway just to convert whatever rust I did uncover. Should I invest a few hundred bucks in a home media blaster kit and attack it that way?

Also curious about advice regarding all of the metalwork that needs doing. Should I just do a new frunk pan? What about the trunk pan, if there are only modest size holes in the back corners? What about those seal channels in the frunk? That's pretty fussy metalwork there.

One reason I call this project Irrational Exuberance: I don't know how to weld. I'm plenty handy and have done tons of stuff, just never had the opportunity to weld. So I guess I'm going to be buying a mig weldere and learning on the job here! That, or finding someone who's better at this stuff to throw beer/pizza at until the problem is solved.

Anyway, more updates to come later.

[mbseto]

Welcome. For some, welding/tinkering is part of the fun. For others it just stands in the way of having a driver. Which one are you? If you are the former, I'd consider getting a welder and tackling it. Get some sheet to practice with and know that there's always more to do than it looks. You can always hire someone to do some of it later.

Are you wire wheeling with a drill or with a grinder? The grinder means business. A heat gun helps wherever there is thick undercoating or soundproofing on the floors. I'd attack that aggressively, get in all the corners and really seek out the rust before deciding if you want to weld it yourself.

[mda123]

Welcome. For some, welding/tinkering is part of the fun. For others it just stands in the way of having a driver. Which one are you? If you are the former, I'd consider getting a welder and tackling it. Get some sheet to practice with and know that there's always more to do than it looks. You can always hire someone to do some of it later.

Are you wire wheeling with a drill or with a grinder? The grinder means business. A heat gun helps wherever there is thick undercoating or soundproofing on the floors. I'd attack that aggressively, get in all the corners and really seek out the rust before deciding if you want to weld it yourself.

I'm definitely the former. I plan to do as much welding as I think I can so long as it meets the quality standards I have. I'm not a crazy obsessive or anything like that, but it is *very* much my intention to address rust in a comprehensive fashion, spend what needs to be spent to get all components in working order, and get a top notch engine in it and tuned so that it drives well.

Wire wheeling was generally with an angle grinder, though I did use a drill for a few hard to reach places.

Basically I'm in "strip and treat" mode now, and I'll figure out repair/rebuild later.

[mda123]

Here’s a couple more shots of the floors. Would it be best to media blast this to ensure it’s fully stripped and treated? I’ve been eyeing blasting systems, but I’m a little concerned that perhaps I’ll have to remove the whole dash/cluster and obsessively mask things off to prevent loose media from getting into everything. Any insights?

[Superhawk996]

Remove everthing before media blast. Taping won't get it done.

Sand goes into places you never knew existed and then comes out at the worst possilbe time. Usually when painting or into your eye when driving it two years later.

Ask me how I know.

[mda123]

Remove everthing before media blast. Taping won't get it done.

Sand goes into places you never knew existed and then comes out at the worst possilbe time. Usually when painting or into your eye when driving it two years later.

Ask me how I know.

Hahaha, fair enough. I guess the real question, then, is whether media blasting would in fact be easier or more comprehensive than just going to town with wire wheels/stripping discs/sandpaper. If I really have to remove damn near everything, then the answer is probably no and I should recognize that the angle grinder is what leads to my salvation.

[Root_Werks]

You can tell over the decades previous owners have tried to mitigate the rust.

Media blasting would work best, but anything you can do to cut out, replace and clean up works.

[mda123]

You can tell over the decades previous owners have tried to mitigate the rust.

Media blasting would work best, but anything you can do to cut out, replace and clean up works.

Much of the rust mitigation you see here is actually my work. That said, previous owners did do some floor pan replacement and POR-15 in the trunk (though I suspect it wasn't applied correctly, because rust holes developed in the corners anyhow).

[mgphoto]

I tried to soda blast but it was way messy, portable sand blaster made problems in clean up.
I use this, it rips through old paint and rust and when your done the metal has a good key for primer.

[bkrantz]

Welcome. For some, welding/tinkering is part of the fun. For others it just stands in the way of having a driver. Which one are you? If you are the former, I'd consider getting a welder and tackling it. Get some sheet to practice with and know that there's always more to do than it looks. You can always hire someone to do some of it later.

Are you wire wheeling with a drill or with a grinder? The grinder means business. A heat gun helps wherever there is thick undercoating or soundproofing on the floors. I'd attack that aggressively, get in all the corners and really seek out the rust before deciding if you want to weld it yourself.

I wonder how many welders have been sold to satisfy the needs of 914 owners.

[bkrantz]

Remove everthing before media blast. Taping won't get it done.

Sand goes into places you never knew existed and then comes out at the worst possilbe time. Usually when painting or into your eye when driving it two years later.

Ask me how I know.

Hahaha, fair enough. I guess the real question, then, is whether media blasting would in fact be easier or more comprehensive than just going to town with wire wheels/stripping discs/sandpaper. If I really have to remove damn near everything, then the answer is probably no and I should recognize that the angle grinder is what leads to my salvation.

Before you buy any tools (unless that is actually your objective!) you might check what vendors are in your area, and what blast options they offer. Dustless, soda, or dry ice blasting might meet your needs better than normal dry media. And some vendors will come to your house.

[barefoot]

A cone shape white wheel on your 4.5" angle grinder works well, very aggressive !

[mda123]

Remove everthing before media blast. Taping won't get it done.

Sand goes into places you never knew existed and then comes out at the worst possilbe time. Usually when painting or into your eye when driving it two years later.

Ask me how I know.

Hahaha, fair enough. I guess the real question, then, is whether media blasting would in fact be easier or more comprehensive than just going to town with wire wheels/stripping discs/sandpaper. If I really have to remove damn near everything, then the answer is probably no and I should recognize that the angle grinder is what leads to my salvation.

Before you buy any tools (unless that is actually your objective!) you might check what vendors are in your area, and what blast options they offer. Dustless, soda, or dry ice blasting might meet your needs better than normal dry media. And some vendors will come to your house.

This is a good call. Maybe I'll spend some time doing proper prep work and then call in a company to do the actual blasting.

[mgarrison]

Just some thoughts...I'm a bit over a year into my journey and I went the wire wheel route. On the interior, I only have the frunk left to brush, scrape and prime. I thought about having it blasted, but $$$ were too painful for me - I wanted those $$$ for flares, paint, Subaru cradle, etc.

Doing it again, I probably would have bought a decent soda blaster and a "tent garage" and blasted it myself. Main concern would be what media for each area of the car, so that you don't make more work for yourself that requires additional paint prep.

Be VERY careful with knotted wire wheels on angle grinders - they grab on things and kick back VERY quick & HARD. Ask me how I know...

Flap disks work good for really rusty areas, or grinding down welds - where you want/need to remove a lot of metal. I've found the polycarbonate (I think they are called) wheels remove paint, primer, etc. without taking away too much metal - using the poly/fiber wheels where I have good metal underneath.

One caveat to be very aware of; if you have the car blasted, you need to get it cleaned up and primed ASAP. Flash rust is real, even in PHX AZ with humidity below 10% at lot of the time! Again, ask me how I know...

Honestly, I think it comes down to personality type; some days I'm depressed and feel like I have made almost zero progress despite a years efforts (most days I spend 1-2 hours after work tinkering on the 914). Other days I feel like I'm so close to having the inside finished and ready for paint. You have to look at it as a journey, and have the perseverance to just keep moving forward. I basically had no welding skills when I started.

Here's my build thread for reference:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...343765&st=0
I believe from all I've seen on 914World, that mine was as close to a "rust free", AZ car as you can find...

Good luck, and have FUN! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) But don't forget to take lots of pictures!

[Superhawk996]

Honestly, I think it comes down to personality type; some days I'm depressed and feel like I have made almost zero progress despite a years efforts (most days I spend 1-2 hours after work tinkering on the 914). Other days I feel like I'm so close to having the inside finished and ready for paint. You have to look at it as a journey, and have the perseverance to just keep moving forward. I basically had no welding skills when I started.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

Well said. A constant battle between frustration and optimism.

I've watched your build . . . . keep going! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

[mda123]

Just some thoughts...I'm a bit over a year into my journey and I went the wire wheel route. On the interior, I only have the frunk left to brush, scrape and prime. I thought about having it blasted, but $$$ were too painful for me - I wanted those $$$ for flares, paint, Subaru cradle, etc.

Doing it again, I probably would have bought a decent soda blaster and a "tent garage" and blasted it myself. Main concern would be what media for each area of the car, so that you don't make more work for yourself that requires additional paint prep.

Be VERY careful with knotted wire wheels on angle grinders - they grab on things and kick back VERY quick & HARD. Ask me how I know...

Flap disks work good for really rusty areas, or grinding down welds - where you want/need to remove a lot of metal. I've found the polycarbonate (I think they are called) wheels remove paint, primer, etc. without taking away too much metal - using the poly/fiber wheels where I have good metal underneath.

One caveat to be very aware of; if you have the car blasted, you need to get it cleaned up and primed ASAP. Flash rust is real, even in PHX AZ with humidity below 10% at lot of the time! Again, ask me how I know...

Honestly, I think it comes down to personality type; some days I'm depressed and feel like I have made almost zero progress despite a years efforts (most days I spend 1-2 hours after work tinkering on the 914). Other days I feel like I'm so close to having the inside finished and ready for paint. You have to look at it as a journey, and have the perseverance to just keep moving forward. I basically had no welding skills when I started.

Here's my build thread for reference:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...343765&st=0
I believe from all I've seen on 914World, that mine was as close to a "rust free", AZ car as you can find...

Good luck, and have FUN! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) But don't forget to take lots of pictures!

Appreciate the words of wisdom. The good news is I’m in no hurry and the journey IS the destination to some extent, so I’m not feeling antsy yet.

On blasting, I’m investigating mobile blasting solutions and also machines to do it myself. I don’t really need the *whole* thing done, at least I don’t think.

Maybe that’s a good question though...if I’ve got rust issues on the interior floors, is the likelihood that similar problems exist on the underbody underneath the coatings? FWIW, suspension and other components are generally in great shape.

[mgarrison]

I'm no expert on 914's for sure, but based on my experience so far if you have issues in the longs and floors, you are going to find many more at least minor issues. I found rust in some really odd places like under the dash support. It was only surface, but I wanted to address it now rather than later.

If I was into it that deep, where I was replacing floor sections and longs, I would want to address any rust/metal work that was needed. But, I am a bit OCD when it comes to this kind of stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[mda123]

I'm no expert on 914's for sure, but based on my experience so far if you have issues in the longs and floors, you are going to find many more at least minor issues. I found rust in some really odd places like under the dash support. It was only surface, but I wanted to address it now rather than later.

If I was into it that deep, where I was replacing floor sections and longs, I would want to address any rust/metal work that was needed. But, I am a bit OCD when it comes to this kind of stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

Well, the longs appear to be fine and the underbody largely looks OK. Same with the hell hole, which has a small hole but otherwise looks fine. There are some rust holes at the seams in the front passenger floor, the pedal box, the front and rear trunk pans, and the odd spot here or there elsewhere. EDIT: almost forgot, there’s very significant rusting of the seal channel on the frunk, and the driver’s side headlight bucket is rusted out too.

So, it’s not exactly consistent.