2.4 six to 3.0 six swap, what do I need? Options

[goose2]

I'm going to swap my 2.4 Zenith carbureted six for a 3.0 CIS injected six. I know some of you here have experience with this....what do I need? I know there will be issues with clutch, flywheel, wiring, fuel pump, linkage. I'd like to minimize down time by collecting info and parts in advance. I need counseling please! (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

[TravisNeff]

External oil cooler maybe? I forget the technical term for a secondary fuel tank before the pump, as the CIS 911;s had. I think Zois had done this on the old rocket.

[Joe Bob]

Get a conversion flywheel and clutch KIT....from Kennedy Engineered Products.

The CIS 3.0 needs ALL the stuff, fuel pump, accumulator, etc.....

I found that a 3.0 while having an engine mounted cooler needs another one externally.....also the FI most likely needs to have the trunk cut for clearance....but Wayne at Pelican claims to have done it w/o.....he might have a tech doc on it...dunno.

If I did it again, I would go with carbs.

[brant]

Randy,

whatcha' gonna do with the 2.4?
(I need a -6 motor for my street car)

brant

[lapuwali]

You do NOT have to cut the trunk to fit a CIS 911 engine into a 914. It's a snug fit, but it will fit. You will have to remove the engine lid latch and either use pins, or move the latch off to one side. You'll also need to dump the trunk springs. If your mount allows you to run the engine a bit low, this will help. Access to some of the bits really sucks once installed, as the trunk wall is RIGHT THERE, but nothing hits or rubs.

I can't remember when the flywheel changed. I thought you could just use the flywheel you're using on the 2.4, but maybe not.

With CIS, you'll need to beef up the fuel system a tad. If you haven't already run stainless tube down the center tunnel to replace the plastic stuff, you should do so now. You'll need all new fuel injection hose, and not D-jet stuff, but stuff rated for at least 150psi. The fuel pump, filter, and accumulator are all CIS specific parts.

[pete-stevers]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/icon_bump.gif)
Think i need to watch this thread too (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

[Eric Taylor]

Randy - That car is going to be a power house! PM Me if you need help with the conversion or body prep for the paint or whatever. I love 6 stuff (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wub.gif)
Eric

[gus]

QUOTE (Manfred Z @ Jul 19 2005, 02:15 PM)

also the FI most likely needs to have the trunk cut for clearance....

That could be avoided by removing the airbox when you convert to megasquirt efi... Had I done it over again with my 911, I wouldda kept the 3.0 CIS motor and done an MS conversion with the tbitz kit.

[carr914]

Sounds like fun to me, Randy. Can never have enough power. Good Luck.

T.C.

[J P Stein]

The 2.4 has a six bolt crank, the 3.0 has a 9 bolt.
Like Mikey said, Kennedy Engineering.

[LvSteveH]

I know I read that someone did the 3.0 swap without moving the latch over, I'm sure someone will come up with the details.

The external cooler on a 3.0L is a hotly debated topic. I know Brad mentioned some time back that if a 3.0L sees a lot of track time, it should get an external cooler, otherwise it works fine without one.

[Joe Bob]

It WILL need an external cooler....I've done three 3.0 conversions.

[LvSteveH]

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/flipa.gif) Mike, I have no doubt that you could over heat a stock 1.7 in short order.

Per Brad R. on 4/04:

"YES !! I love the oil cooler debates.

First off.. Kiss my ASS. (Thought I would get that out of the way)..LOL

Daily driving and even the occasional AutoX will not require an extra oil cooler over a stock 9146 cooler in a 3.0 or 3.2.

I really dont care what the 911 came with.. it also came with an engine facing backwards with half the amount of clean air available (nevermind the AC or catalytic converter and ALL the exhaust wrapped around it..including a muffler hung 3 inches from it)..

You will NEVER convince me otherwise. I can show you case after case (and let you drive the cars I'm referencing) to prove my theory.

Oh.. your 9146 tranny is fine, but you will want the 5th gear from a 4cyl box. The 9146 stock tranny has a taller second gear but a shorter 5th than the 4cyl 914 tranny."

Bruce and his books go way back... oils have changed... gas has changed... he also told us to install chassis stiff kits and control arm kits 20 years ago... Now he doesnt.

Everytime I install a front mounted oil cooler in a 3.0 or 3.2 car.. I end up blocking half (if not more) of it off to keep the car from cycling the thermostat. I honestly beleive the earlier engines need a front mounted cooler, but with the advance in oil pumps in the 3.0/3.2 and synthetic oil.

I have also said it depends on where you live. I know where this guy lives (Castro Valley) it is only 8-10deg. warmer there than it is here on the Penisula. He would be just fine with a stock cooler."

[Joe Bob]

I seem to be using this term a lot lately...BITE ME....

As to 3.0s....they seem to be fine for AX and around town....but it's wierd, the temps tend to keep climbing on long drives.....180-200 for an hour then after that a slow climb to 300....happened to ME on two cars and once on another that I helped build....both were bone stock 3.0s with CIS......one later had a 964 cam upgrade....another carbs....

I kept getting told by Bradhole that they shouldn't need an extra cooler.....but hell my first conversion was done before I even heard of or met the weenie...

Just MY experience.....nothing that anyone should take to heart. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/flipa.gif)

[goose2]

Ah...I love a lively debate. I have an extra cooler I could mount. Seems like I could just monitor oil temps closely and hook it up if needed, yes? The latch is no problem...I can either relocate it or use some sort of pin system to keep the lid down. As to the flywheel/ clutch...there are alternatives to using the Kennedy set-up, right? I have friends in machine shops. Is the CIS similar to the system used by VW a few years ago, K-Jetronic I think? I'm semi-familiar with that. And Steve....is there an accumulator with the motor? Access sounds like a problem...has anyone put a removable panel in the trunk? Yeah, I know...lots-o-questions. Thanks all!

[lapuwali]

CIS = K-Jet, they are one and the same. There is a difference between early and late SC CIS systems. The early engines had no O2 sensor, and were purely mechanical. The late systems had an O2 sensor, and had a small all-analog ECU that controlled a valve which in turn altered the control pressure to vary the mixture v. airflow curve. A late system will obviously require more wiring, and will require you to add a bung to your exhaust to fit the O2 sensor. I *think* the '78-'79 engines were "early", and the '80-on engines were "late".

The accumulator is inline with the fuel line from the pump to the fuel distributor. You can get one from any VW that used K-Jet, they're the same part.

There's generally little need to access anything the trunk wall will block. The adjustments can be reached from the sides or above quite easily.

[brant]

I think you'd be better off buying a flywheel than trying to make one... but none of my business really.

the 3.0SC added the oxysensor mid 1981

so whatcha' gonna do with the 2.4/stock flywheel?

brant

[goose2]

QUOTE

I think you'd be better off buying a flywheel than trying to make one...

No....I wouldn't try to make one. Thought maybe it was just a matter of some changes, like machining the 2.4 flywheel to fit the 3.0 crank. The 2.4 motor, carbs, and anything else I don't need will be sold....gonna need cash to pay for all this foolishness.

[Joe Bob]

If the carbs are Webers...."I" would keep them and use them....

[J P Stein]

QUOTE (goose2 @ Jul 19 2005, 10:37 PM)

As to the flywheel/ clutch...there are alternatives to using the Kennedy set-up, right? I have friends in machine shops.

There are always alternatives.
Write when you find some.