OEM Black Door Handles Options

[bbrock]

i found this image in my file of stuff i collected over the years.
can't remember source, too long ago.
never bothered to look at it closely before.
assumed it was another shot of red 4 above.

took a second look and thought again - a shot of piech 8 in first form? - a very early prototype test car.

looked again, its not piech 8 unless it was heavily modded again after this.
running 4 bolt vw wheels and has flattened front wheel arches.
but it does seem to have wide twin headlight pop up panels.
bumper has no grilles.

Yes, that is 914.111 before it got the 908 treatment.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

found this story sir andy, you probably already read it.
mechanic who built 914.111 is still alive.

says he also built (handbuilt?) the first two 914/4 prototypes.

https://www.porscheclubnews.com/prod/clubs/...4_914clausecker

That is a great article! Thanks for posting. You should cross post it over in the Garage as I think a lot of people would like to see it. Funny that they apparently found installing the pedal board as annoying as I do. Interesting modifications on the one shown in the article.

[wonkipop]

i found this image in my file of stuff i collected over the years.
can't remember source, too long ago.
never bothered to look at it closely before.
assumed it was another shot of red 4 above.

took a second look and thought again - a shot of piech 8 in first form? - a very early prototype test car.

looked again, its not piech 8 unless it was heavily modded again after this.
running 4 bolt vw wheels and has flattened front wheel arches.
but it does seem to have wide twin headlight pop up panels.
bumper has no grilles.

Yes, that is 914.111 before it got the 908 treatment.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

found this story sir andy, you probably already read it.
mechanic who built 914.111 is still alive.

says he also built (handbuilt?) the first two 914/4 prototypes.

https://www.porscheclubnews.com/prod/clubs/...4_914clausecker

That is a great article! Thanks for posting. You should cross post it over in the Garage as I think a lot of people would like to see it. Funny that they apparently found installing the pedal board as annoying as I do. Interesting modifications on the one shown in the article.

no worries.

noticed the hacked up pedal board too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) something to do with hydraulic clutch? this car must have one? or humungous fuel lines coming into tunnel? i could finally understand the shift mechanism - pretty crazy. a cross bar in front of the passenger seat covered by a hump of carpet. looks like the shift lever is about 4=6 inches south of where it is in a normal 914. could never figure that out before because i knew that all 908s and 917s were rhd with shifter on the right.

i noticed 924 style headlight mechanism. one motor and an an axle to the other unit. done more expensive way on standard 914s with two motors.

we have never had the good fortune to have had this car brought to australia by the company, unlike lucky americans. its just photos and articles for me.

the company does bring out interesting cars from its collection for celebrations, but never 914s, i suppose because they were never officially sold here. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[wonkipop]

anyone ever noticed something about this photo before?

karmann factory.
model year 68 or 69 ghias coming down the line.
circular indicator lights. MY 70 had type 3 style wrap arounds.
photo likely taken sometime between fall 67 to summer 69?

in the background are 914s on stands.
914 production does not start until fall of 69?

early pre production shells or batch of prototypes being prepared?

couple of red ones there, but no tangerine/blood orange.
guess with mr. piech's car the trunk carpet and shot black paint in the front disguises brutal surgery done in "the cage" elsewhere.

[SirAndy]

anyone ever noticed something about this photo before?

karmann factory.
model year 68 or 69 ghias coming down the line.
circular indicator lights. MY 70 had type 3 style wrap arounds.
photo likely taken sometime between fall 67 to summer 69?

in the background are 914s on stands.
914 production does not start until fall of 69?

early pre production shells or batch of prototypes being prepared?

couple of red ones there, but no tangerine/blood orange.
guess with mr. piech's car the trunk carpet and shot black paint in the front disguises brutal surgery done in "the cage" elsewhere.

Yes, there are several threads somewhere on the site about the prototypes, how many where built when and shipped to Porsche etc.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[davep]

in the background are 914s on stands.
914 production does not start until fall of 69?

early pre production shells or batch of prototypes being prepared?

guess with mr. piech's car the trunk carpet and shot black paint in the front disguises brutal surgery done in "the cage" elsewhere.

The 7 914 in the background would likely be prototypes on trolley carts. We know of 914006, 914111, 914114 and 914120. Actual production cars were probably first built in August 1969; the first completion date I know of is Sept 5.
As to the "brutal surgery", well yes 914114 was much modified to make the 908 engine fit, and to accommodate the larger fuel tank. However, very few parts of the car before modification were what we would think of as production parts.
I would love to see all of the photos taken during the photo shoot at the museum.

[mepstein]

in the background are 914s on stands.
914 production does not start until fall of 69?

early pre production shells or batch of prototypes being prepared?

guess with mr. piech's car the trunk carpet and shot black paint in the front disguises brutal surgery done in "the cage" elsewhere.

The 7 914 in the background would likely be prototypes on trolley carts. We know of 914006, 914111, 914114 and 914120. Actual production cars were probably first built in August 1969; the first completion date I know of is Sept 5.
As to the "brutal surgery", well yes 914114 was much modified to make the 908 engine fit, and to accommodate the larger fuel tank. However, very few parts of the car before modification were what we would think of as production parts.
I would love to see all of the photos taken during the photo shoot at the museum.

"Brutal surgery"? More like 914 artistry. They fixed a 908 engine and trans into a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

[wonkipop]

in the background are 914s on stands.
914 production does not start until fall of 69?

early pre production shells or batch of prototypes being prepared?

guess with mr. piech's car the trunk carpet and shot black paint in the front disguises brutal surgery done in "the cage" elsewhere.

The 7 914 in the background would likely be prototypes on trolley carts. We know of 914006, 914111, 914114 and 914120. Actual production cars were probably first built in August 1969; the first completion date I know of is Sept 5.
As to the "brutal surgery", well yes 914114 was much modified to make the 908 engine fit, and to accommodate the larger fuel tank. However, very few parts of the car before modification were what we would think of as production parts.
I would love to see all of the photos taken during the photo shoot at the museum.

"Brutal surgery"? More like 914 artistry. They fixed a 908 engine and trans into a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

tried to carefully chose the word "surgery".
was thinking "brutal" in relation to the sitting in the seat - driving, result.
but as the mechanic tells in the story linked above, they just cut into it and did it.
no drawings - ad libbed it as they went. some of that body mod stuff would be fairly "direct" and raw i'd guess.

.........the patient sure was in a different state of health after the heart transplant.

i understand "butchery" is reserved by some for rhd conversions.
though,....... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) is/was imperative. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i saw a 908 up close about --- 40 years ago. belonged to mr. hamilton, the original porsche distributor before the factory stepped in and took over in the early/mid 90s.
quite an engine. that car was road registered then and wore plates. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)
it spent a bit of time in the showroom on display. but it was taken out and run.
its not here anymore. i never heard the engine run in that. wish i had.
i'm not sure what is really left in aus these days.
(hamilton did have a 917 can am car but i never saw that taken out on track or visibly displayed). americans are fortunate in that there are these cars there and they are out run on tracks to hear and see. most i have seen is rusty french's 935 driven in anger about 10 years or more ago. mr. french didn't drive any other way.

would be nice to see more archive photos of some of the long crushed prototypes if they exist.
would tell an interesting story.
i'd read all the good info on the site here a year ago on prototype numbers.
picked up that there was 48 /4 protos and 20 /6s.
a series with a 0 as first of three numbers after 914 and a series with a 1 as first number?

another book out there for a good historian. i'd buy it.

its good the early history of the design of the cars has come to light recently.
i thought long ago it was piech's project with an emphasis on engineering.
i remember the orange audi spyder concept car from the early 90s, which had 914 door handles. like it was some hint at a homage.

[bbrock]

its good the early history of the design of the cars has come to light recently.
i thought long ago it was piech's project with an emphasis on engineering.
i remember the orange audi spyder concept car from the early 90s, which had 914 door handles. like it was some hint at a homage.

Agreed. I always thought the whole NARP thing was pretty dumb considering the lineage of the 356 and 911, but it has been a real epiphany learning how deeply Piech's vison shaped the 914. Also interesting has been learning that Porsche seemed to have every intention of continuing to develop the car but it was VW, not Porsche, who pulled the plug. Goes against the common myth that Porsche wanted to distance themselves from the bastard model. If that were true, why then did they replace it with another bastard? What is sad is that Porsche themselves seem to have bought into this nonsense and only recently do they seem willing to acknowledge the 914's existence again. Still, just once I'd like to see a Porsche official describe the Boxster as the modern day 914.

[RolinkHaus]

Great post. My father's childhood home is 25 minutes from Karmann.

[wonkipop]

its good the early history of the design of the cars has come to light recently.
i thought long ago it was piech's project with an emphasis on engineering.
i remember the orange audi spyder concept car from the early 90s, which had 914 door handles. like it was some hint at a homage.

Agreed. I always thought the whole NARP thing was pretty dumb considering the lineage of the 356 and 911, but it has been a real epiphany learning how deeply Piech's vison shaped the 914. Also interesting has been learning that Porsche seemed to have every intention of continuing to develop the car but it was VW, not Porsche, who pulled the plug. Goes against the common myth that Porsche wanted to distance themselves from the bastard model. If that were true, why then did they replace it with another bastard? What is sad is that Porsche themselves seem to have bought into this nonsense and only recently do they seem willing to acknowledge the 914's existence again. Still, just once I'd like to see a Porsche official describe the Boxster as the modern day 914.

a lot of turmoil/confusion/conflict at that time.

poor old 924 got caught out. meant to be the sirrocco pure and simple- i think?
not even a joint venture VW-porsche thing.
sirocco ended up being VW backing their own tech not porsches.

there was an alternative 70s VW universe and "deeply piech's vision" (?) - ie mid engined. piech's (?) idea of a golf was interesting. it had to have been him driving that? - porsche were in charge of the design contract. don't think it would have been as good as the golf (rabbit) as a mass market car. but it would have been interesting to drive ......vw and porsche (esp. porsche) are mostly schtum about the car. almost like it never happened. only just learned that porsche had been getting a percentage of every beetle built since the factory re-opened after WW2. never knew that. was part of their handsome r&d contract. all that got stopped savagely at the end of the 60s. think 914 got caught up in a lot stuff going down. been wrongly described as an orphan? - maybe the kid standing around after a divorce. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif)

i am sure i have heard porsche officials recently say the 914 is the ancestor of the boxster. at least down here. there was some kind of 50th zoom presentation/celebration at the showroom in the midst of co-vid lockdowns. i was surprised anything happened. but they only mentioned the 6 as the daddy. no talk of 4s.

personally i was amazed that silver 74 1.8 sat around in their collection when my friend bought the photos back years ago.
not surprised by the 8s. its been there since early noughties minimum.
i should have studied the info plaque before this.
says a bit about what key personal thought of the 14 around the time of boxster.

i like reading about henry ford, piech was his equal.
maybe a history of piech, when it gets properly written, will tell a good story about the 914. (too scary a guy to write a history about when he was alive).
914 might get compared to stuff like audi quattros etc rather than pidgeon-holed as some kind of 911 comparison as it was/had been.

[RolinkHaus]

More pics, love VW/Porsche history (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[wonkipop]

nothing more to tell mate.
vw and porsche have all the pics.

but VW do have the one and only EA266 parked up in their museum.
they crushed the rest and don't much talk about what explains it.
and they sort of prop up their golf story with it, but its,.....not much of a story the way they tell it.

still to be written.
some one has to break into the archives and given carte blanche.

......my version is this.
piech got sent to siberia.
they hoped he died in the audi gulag amongst renegade nsu ro80 corpses.
his cousin turned to designing watches,..... had time to spare.

but he came back at tree top level.
unlike elvis he never left the building?

meanwhile in porsche land...
steve mqueen totally f%cked up the opening scenes to le mans.
(piech's masterpiece moment rendered in glorious cinema).
opening scenes.... calm country driving in a brownish anachronism...when he should have been driving a you know what.
despite the fact mr. mcqueen was making a movie about the 917s annihilating everything.....and #40 had won its class (how big has the hint got to be).
don't get me wrong, i liked steve mcqueen.
but........he was not completely concentrating and pointed into the future?

thirty years later.
mr. piech must have loved this.
the bbc got it right (with the benefit of history - a bit of post modern "irony").
would have made mr. p grin from ear to ear?

blood orange too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmifaKiPa6M

anything mr. piech was doing in the 1960s was not looking back but going forward.
and thats the problem with all 914 history pretty much.
they try to make it fit in.
it doesn't.
its outside the envelope.
its not about a brand.
its about a man?

or maybe it is about a brand.
and the brand turns out to be the man.

[wonkipop]

here is the thing i was trying to find.
a document - rather than pictures.
it spells out the 914s fate - its a porsche document? maybe?

the 914 was already over by mid 72 - in porsch's mind (not just VW).
the document is dated late 1969, when the 914 had just been released.
all indications are that the successor to the 914 was to be released as the first part of the EA 266 program. see the intended release dates of the various models.
The EA 266 roadster was to be released as a 73 model year after summer 72.



i had never really realised the extent to which the EA 266 project was entirely porsche.
i'd seen images and assumed that it was a VW project with Porsche input.
but the whole thing was done at Porsche. lock stock and barrel.
The styling, the engineering and the testing. Nothing was done at Wolfsburg.

It was in fact a repeat of the beetle. an entirely porsche design, to be built by the industrial complex called VW.

The styling team was primarily
Exterior - Wolfgang Mobius
Interior - Hans Braun.
These are the two guys who did the hands on work of the 928.
H. Klie and F A Porsche headed the styling team, but the real work was the two above.
(thats for the little golf like car).

The project leader and head of engineering was F. Piech.

The air cooled type 4 914 was not, at least in 1969 intended to last very long at all.
it was going to go the way of the 411/412 - out the door - at around the same time the 412 was going out the door?

until......Mr. Rudolph Leiding showed up. in 1971.

within three weeks of taking over he entirely detonated the EA 266 project which was 2-3 months away from commencing production (possibly that account an exaggeration re time lines?).

as far as i can tell looking at the dates, Mr. Piech walked out the door of Porsche at precisely that moment.

there are a few accounts out there of what was done.
crushing prototypes with a leopard tank, etc.
destroying all design documents.
whatever went down was big.

but...
one of the interesting side aspects of it is the Leiding had come from Audi (with a stint in Brazil between). At Audi he had sorted out the mess it was - basically audi was NSU or what was left of it. it seems he developed a side engineering operation there out of view of VW central that involved perfecting the front engine front wheel drive engineering package that would be VW's engineering future. after detonating porsche as engineering R+D, he rolled that tech in.

the strangest thing of all, is that after a year cooling his heels and looking dangerously like he might work for the enemy - Mercedes Benz - Mr. Piech accepted a postion with Audi in 1972. he could not possibly have had the job offered to him without Mr. Leidiing's approval.

-----

the 924 was never the successor to the 914.
it was not even a joint venture car in the true sense of the word.
from what i can work out, it may have been a contract from VW to keep some kind of link between the two companies after the meltdown moment in 1971.
the contract was very tightly written for the original design of what would be the 924.
it had to be entirely built from the VW parts bin. no porsche parts.

that is the big difference between the 924 and the 914.

-----

i hope the stories are not really true that Mr. Leiding ordered the destruction of all the design documents. hidden in them is the full design for the 1973 914?
mid engined, water cooled in line 4 (laid flat). packaged pretty much like it is in the boxster.

------
as an aside, as an interested australian driving on the wrong side of the road.
for me that is the best explanation for why there was never a RHD 914.
why would you bother.
you could gear up RHD with the replacement in 72.
but it never happens.
instead it soldiers on for another 3 years or so in the aftermath of EA 266.

[wonkipop]

so much for crushing prototype cars and burning everything.

rack of shelves full of EA266 models for color range.
still in existence.
VW has all this stuff, down in history as hostile to the whole thing and wiped it off the face of the earth. really?

some one has to get in there and find the lost 914 followup - which isnt a 924?

(or for that matter what mid engined thing was really going to put the 911 to the axe? - and it wasn't a 928?).

some accounts say there is a second EA266 prototype that survives.
what storage facility is that in the back of under a sheet?



model of orange 914 above door.
strange silver coupe next to it, not quite a 924?

piech's 300 hp blood orange mid engined chassis "experiment" was not just an experiment?

[wonkipop]

one example (min) of piech's suitcase package in-line 4 for EA266 exists.
vw brought it out of their collection for display in an exhibition in late 2019.

1.6L 100-105 bhp. powerplant would have been in follow up to 914.
vehicle target weight of 800kg.
150kg less than a 914/4.
would have been a quick little car.

accounts that state all prototype engines were destroyed not accurate.

[wonkipop]

definitely more than one prototype EA266 survives.
i tracked down the original polish article that published extensive material on the EA266 project around the time of the 40th anniversary of the VW Golf.

included were studio shots of a dusty yellow pre production EA266 prototype.
(different car than olive green vehicle held in the VW museum collection).
these images are not film shots that date from 1969/71, they are relatively recent hi res digital shots taken in a white room studio setting - so are not historic images of a destroyed prototype, at least not destroyed in 1971.

[wonkipop]

additionally it appears the very first 1967 lash up prototype survives that underwent testing during 67/68 before the project was given further green light in 69 from VW.

you can see heinrich klie's hand in the styling. squared off 914 style door handles.
also the glass in the door is almost a direct lift from the 914. frameless glass in the doors exactly as per 914 right down to the chrome post with the rubber cap.




neither of these cars appears to be with VW.
I guess porsche possibly holds them in their collection?


klie (?) styled prototype under testing.

[wonkipop]

the cars were defintely styled completely inside porsches design studio.
(924 in the same space probably 2 years later).

1866 noted on these images refers to the klie styled prototype above.
porsche project no. 1866.
one of the original proposals was for a mid engined car and was proceeded with.
another was for a front engined rear transaxle variant that was not initially proceeded with. later in the wake of the mid engine project collapse, the front engine/rear transaxle layout was taken up again in the 924 and 928. all the seeds were there already in 1967 - both for the failed project headed by F. Piech and the subsequent plan B project that produced the mid 70s water cooled non rear engined porsches. Porsche was hostile to developing a front wheel drive front engined car for VW.

[wonkipop]

i found one three quarter view study for the roadster (914 replacement?).
it appears to be a very early study and penned by Richard Sonderberg.
there was a second later design by Wolfgang Mobius - nothing has been previously published that i can find apart from a profile view of that one.
that second design looked to have a front section like the sedan with exposed headlights and rear flanks that have a strong resemblance to the 928.

[wonkipop]

much of the written material that has surfaced on the project in the last half decade draws on this article published in 1980 in germany by Dr. Rudiger Etzold. you need to be able to read german.

however there are extensive illustrations including blue prints.
the blueprints outline the alternative mid engined v front engine - rear transaxle possibilities from 1967-69.

https://sowirdsgemacht.com/articles/view/vw...in-serie-gingen


i'm guessing the 914/8 built by Pieche's team was more than just a demonstration of what the chassis was capable of handling - it was a proof of concept for the next generation of flagship car to replace the 911 - mid engined and not rear engined and with power somewhere in the vicinity of 250hp. at that time the 911S in top spec was i think still under 200hp max. Piech's proposed water cooled flat 8 reportedly derived from the in line flat 4 for VW probably could have mustered that kind of hp fully developed.
There was a 6 on the boards as well. I guess it was developed out of the flat in line 3 for VW.

I can't find anything much about these watercooled flat 6 and flat 8 engines - apart from mention that Leuling ordered the destruction of Piech's prototype 8 that had been built and was under testing.