Heat exchangers, Restoration Design vs SSI Options

[Tom_T]

Guys.... Warren is my customer, I think he's got someone who knows a little bit about the job.

This is what Warren is getting...

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-26-1618525646.jpg)

What a gorgeous engine Mark & Warren! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/drooley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)

IMHO what I would do if it were mine or for any 73-76 - after sinking serious coin into that beautiful & strong running engine - would be to:

1. Get the JP/Dansk/SSI 2.0 HEs -

2. Along with whatever other parts & bits were needed due to either backdating &/or worn parts -

3. Then put either:

3a. A nice NOS OEM 2.0 "Banana" with the OE Chrome Exhaust Tip/End to dress it up - or

3b. A new JP/Dansk "new Banana" with the chromed end pipe - or

3c. Try to find one of the better breathing OE NOS "Sport" Leistritz "Banana" mufflers to extract a couple more horses out of that great motor!

(PS - modified the above for spelling error & to make it an easier to read list.)

That's my suggestions & my choices (see below) - but it's your car, & your $$s, & your choice.

BTW - I do have the SS J-Pipes, SSI 2.0 HEs & NOS Liestritz "Sport Banana" muffler to go on my 73's resto project, & I just need to find a nice chrome exhaust tip to top it off .... once I can actually get to my 914 & get it back on track & into the shops (too much shit happening to do so now & for a while). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Enjoy that 914 Warren! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Mark Henry]

That's not the engine Warren is getting, that's another customers engine that I've completed and is waiting for the 914 so I can install it.
This one the shroud and runner colours are not correct, the customer just wanted Silver with black.

Warren has the 914 with the creamsicle suspension so he's leaning towards leaving it white and black.

The other 2.0 Djets I'm doing the shroud powder coat colour will be a rough approximation of raw magnesium and the runners will be primer gray.

[Warren914]

I didn't think it looked like my white engine.

After some thought and looking around, I've ordered new 2.0 heat exchangers from Restoration Design. I don't want banged up parts going on what will be an expensive restoration. Engine work is just the start. Paint and body will be done next. The car will never be concourse due to incorrect body color, painted suspension, bolts in the floor, rear reflector, etc. I'm expecting it to be a very solid and higher end driver.

The car had a dual tip exhaust when I bought it in 2001. That was swapped out with a single output muffler with a catalytic converter removal pipe. I don't know what other parts are missing or need to be replaced. Awaiting a list of other items needed to back date from 1975 2.0 and will get those moving too. The OEM rear valence will be in place, so the muffler will have to fit correctly. I trust Mark will get this done right!

I'm all for supporting site sponsors as appropriate. Unfortunately the exchange rate, shipping, brokerage fees, etc make ordering from the USA impractical for some items.

Everyone should play nicely please... It wasn't the sort of exchange anticipated when I asked the question.

[Root_Werks]

Dunno if this is still true or not, but 10+ years ago I ran across a set of 1.7 SSI's for cheap. Was told the ID of the pipes were the same as SSI's 2.0 units. Turned out to be true, so I bought them and installed on my 2.0.

Funny thing is, actually liked them better than the 2.0 HE's. The muffler sits a little bit higher and is less visible. It turned out really well.

[dr914@autoatlanta.com]

they are the same, stainless sold to dansk who makes them all now, all of the regular suppliers stock them.

I'm planning an exhaust refit on my '75 914. Any thoughts on stainless steel heat exchangers from Restoration Design vs those from SSI? Extra bits and pieces will be needed...

https://www.restoration-design.com/store/product/PP033

[Mark Henry]

Dunno if this is still true or not, but 10+ years ago I ran across a set of 1.7 SSI's for cheap. Was told the ID of the pipes were the same as SSI's 2.0 units. Turned out to be true, so I bought them and installed on my 2.0.

Funny thing is, actually liked them better than the 2.0 HE's. The muffler sits a little bit higher and is less visible. It turned out really well.

I don't think a stock 2.0 banana will fit, and IIRC the 1.8 muffler is not as free flowing as a 2.0 banana.
But IIRC Ben now has a nice 1.7/1.8 muffler, so the 1.7/1.8 HE is a good solution if on a budget.

Warren has decided to go new so I'd go with the 2.0 SSI just because there's a bigger selection of mufflers including the 2.0 banana.

[Root_Werks]

Dunno if this is still true or not, but 10+ years ago I ran across a set of 1.7 SSI's for cheap. Was told the ID of the pipes were the same as SSI's 2.0 units. Turned out to be true, so I bought them and installed on my 2.0.

Funny thing is, actually liked them better than the 2.0 HE's. The muffler sits a little bit higher and is less visible. It turned out really well.

I don't think a stock 2.0 banana will fit, and IIRC the 1.8 muffler is not as free flowing as a 2.0 banana.
But IIRC Ben now has a nice 1.7/1.8 muffler, so the 1.7/1.8 HE is a good solution if on a budget.

Warren has decided to go new so I'd go with the 2.0 SSI just because there's a bigger selection of mufflers including the 2.0 banana.

Ah yes, forgot I was running a Bursch header/muffler. Correct, wouldn't think a 1.7 bannanananana muffler would work well. Might work, but be restrictive.

[Mark Henry]

Warren just drop shipped me a new set of SSI's from RD, I should have them next mid week

[Tom_T]

That's not the engine Warren is getting, that's another customers engine that I've completed and is waiting for the 914 so I can install it.
This one the shroud and runner colours are not correct, the customer just wanted Silver with black.

Warren has the 914 with the creamsicle suspension so he's leaning towards leaving it white and black.

The other 2.0 Djets I'm doing the shroud powder coat colour will be a rough approximation of raw magnesium and the runners will be primer gray.

It's still a nice looking motor Mark, & FYI the PCA Concours don't judge originality anymore since the late 1970s - early `80s (except as a tie-breaker on a competitor challenge at the PCA National Parade Concours only). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif)

So IMHO your motors would score high at any Concours, although the running attributes are far more important to most owners - myself included - & your reputation on that end is right up there with the top 914 shops nationally - including FAT Performance & that guy down in Georgia who used to do 914s! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

I didn't think it looked like my white engine.

After some thought and looking around, I've ordered new 2.0 heat exchangers from Restoration Design. I don't want banged up parts going on what will be an expensive restoration. Engine work is just the start. Paint and body will be done next. The car will never be concourse due to incorrect body color, painted suspension, bolts in the floor, rear reflector, etc. I'm expecting it to be a very solid and higher end driver.

The car had a dual tip exhaust when I bought it in 2001. That was swapped out with a single output muffler with a catalytic converter removal pipe. I don't know what other parts are missing or need to be replaced. Awaiting a list of other items needed to back date from 1975 2.0 and will get those moving too. The OEM rear valence will be in place, so the muffler will have to fit correctly. I trust Mark will get this done right!

I'm all for supporting site sponsors as appropriate. Unfortunately the exchange rate, shipping, brokerage fees, etc make ordering from the USA impractical for some items.

Everyone should play nicely please... It wasn't the sort of exchange anticipated when I asked the question.

Apologies for my part in that.

Warren - the Leistritz 2.0 Sport Muffler looks just like the non-sport OE 2.0 Banana - so it would fit your setup if the basic Banana fits your 75 setup AFAIK (Mark can verify). They come up on here occasionally (which was how I got mine), & on evil-bay, TheSamba, etc. forums, so you could do a stock Banana for now until you can find one - if you want the supposed +/- 5-10% performance improvement that Porsche claimed for them back in the day.

I was trying to fing my pix of my Leistritz with its p/n for your reference to do searches, but I'm not finding which SD card or laptop file that they're in easily right now, & the parts are currently inaccessible in my garage due to the construction site going on here. If I find them later this weekend, then I'll post it here FYI.

Also - check with SMC for other parts you may need - because they're now doing something with Canadian customers for free or lower shipping & something on the exchange rate I think - for which they sent out emails in Feb-Mar. That was another reason that I'd suggested them, but forgot to say so. So shoot them an email & ask about it, because they carry more wide ranging 914 parts than RD.

And as for Concours - as I noted for Mark above - PCA does not care about correct paint color, reflectors, nor any originality at all! It's just a cleaning, detailing & presentation contest. I've been a PCA Concours judge for 10+ years, & we had an EV 914 conversion win best in 914 Class & Best in Street Division out of 30+ P-cars here in the Orange County Region PCA back in 2015 - & you can't get more unoriginal than that! It was a beautiful car BTW!

So if you're at all interested in showing/entering your 914 - just do it with your local PCA Region & Zone shows, & there are members on here who are members up there.

You can still drive your 914 & enter in PCA Concours, but if you're not into that, then don't compete, but you can just show P-cars in unjudged "Display" at most PCA events. So have fun & share your 914!

Good Luck with your Resto! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Tom_T]

Dunno if this is still true or not, but 10+ years ago I ran across a set of 1.7 SSI's for cheap. Was told the ID of the pipes were the same as SSI's 2.0 units. Turned out to be true, so I bought them and installed on my 2.0.

Funny thing is, actually liked them better than the 2.0 HE's. The muffler sits a little bit higher and is less visible. It turned out really well.

I don't think a stock 2.0 banana will fit, and IIRC the 1.8 muffler is not as free flowing as a 2.0 banana.
But IIRC Ben now has a nice 1.7/1.8 muffler, so the 1.7/1.8 HE is a good solution if on a budget.

Warren has decided to go new so I'd go with the 2.0 SSI just because there's a bigger selection of mufflers including the 2.0 banana.

Ah yes, forgot I was running a Bursch header/muffler. Correct, wouldn't think a 1.7 bannanananana muffler would work well. Might work, but be restrictive.

FYI for you &/or others with the 1.7/18 setup - JP/Dansk is still producing the 1.7/1.8 Sport Muffler version - which should be a straight bolt-on upgrade to either the OE steel 1.7 HEs, or the SSI version.

https://sierramadrecollection.com/914-914-6...-76-p54320.html

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/sierramadrecollection.com-10181-1618597245.1.png)

It should be available at P-parts sellers other than SMC too AFAIK.

However to be clear - I'm NOT recommending this over a 2.0 stock or Sport Banana with 2.0 HEs (OE or SSI).

The fitment difference with the 1.7/1.8 vs 2.0 steel or SSI HEs is that the 1.7 has a higher rise in the pipes out the back, so that the smaller diameter 1.7 muffler is up further to the trunk floor/heat shield - whereas the 2.0 pipes are more straight back due to the larger diameter Banana muffler for the same clearance above.

Jeff Bowlsby's Classic 914 website has good comparative pix of these, exhaust/muffler brackets & other parts as a reference.

https://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/TechNotebook.htm

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/bowlsby.net-10181-1618597245.2.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads_offsite/bowlsby.net-10181-1618597245.3.jpg)


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
Tom
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[Warren914]

The PO may have made changes. Mark is going to have to check what parts are presently on the car. Once he has a list it will be time to order things. I should just mail him my VISA card...

[mepstein]

It’s worth it. A good heating system really adds to the enjoyment of the car.

[Warren914]

It’s worth it. A good heating system really adds to the enjoyment of the car.

A clean heater would be awesome. Mine was coated in oil. It smelled really bad when the blower was turned on.

[mb911]

Wow lots of information on this thread. Sounds like Mark has everything under control and he is fully capable of helping Warren making very educated selections. I do think this thread serves as a great reference for everyone doing this same exact project.

[poorsche914]

... that guy down in Georgia who used to do 914s! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Jake still builds Type 4s. In fact, his daughter (10yo?) just built her first T4 which is now powering a classic VW Beetle Convertible (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[Mark Henry]

I just got Warren's new set of SSI's delivered from RD, real cool to see them all shiny and new... but they're SSI's. Only difference is the old SSI's came in a cardboard box with "SSI" printed on it. BTW I can show you an old SSI box if you like.
They look exactly like SSI's...so do you really need a pic?

@warren914

Now Warren needs a muffler...Oh yeah an engine might help as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Warren914]

I just got Warren's new set of SSI's delivered from RD, real cool to see them all shiny and new... but they're SSI's. Only difference is the old SSI's came in a cardboard box with "SSI" printed on it. BTW I can show you an old SSI box if you like.
They look exactly like SSI's...so do you really need a pic?

@warren914

Now Warren needs a muffler...Oh yeah an engine might help as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Needs an engine?? That's your job! Hope it's as shiny as those heat exchangers...