Suggestions for tracking stock 2.0L Options

[GregAmy]

Are there any instructions available showing how to convert a type IV to dry sump?

None I'm aware of. The engine part is easy: just get a bolt-in oil pump. CB Performance makes one:

https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1745.htm

The rest is all bespoke for your install. You'll need to mount a tank some place; I'm using a Canton from Summit:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-23-110r

...and then install it in a convenient location. Then you need lines from the pump to the tank, and from the tank to the pump. Mine's installed up front with the cooler and filters, with AN braided-steel lines going through the passenger side of the cockpit.

Alternatively, you could source and install the 914-6 dry sump tank; there are many threads on doing that, as it's a common process when /4 are converted to 911 engines. That info will have line routing, tank mounting, etc. The only deviation is your lines would be going to the /4 pump. That's likely what I personally would do for a street car.

GA

[Driver174]

Is plumbing needed to bottom of engine, maybe to tuna can to scavenge oil from engine? How does system work? If oil pump is used to pressurize oil into the engine, what pulls oil from engine to the tank?

I currently have AN 10 braided lines between engine and front oil cooler. Maybe I can front mount a tank and utilize these lines.

Can someone diagram the oil flow for me?

Thanks,
Jim

[GregAmy]

It's easy.

Thay dry sump oil pump is a two-stage pump and is plumbed for two external AN lines: one going from the pump to the sump tank, and one going from the sump tank to the pump.

It's all done internally. One stage of the pump pulls oil using the stock pickup tube and routes the oil to the outlet fitting and then to the sump tank; the other stage of the pump pulls oil from the sump tank and pressurizes the engine. In effect, it routes oil like the stock oil pump, but instead of pickup tube-to-oil cooler-to-engine, it first routes it outside the engine to the tank, then back to the internal oil cooler to the engine.

One stage does all the work of pickup and delivering to the tank, the other stage does the work of recovering oil from the tank and pressurizing the engine. This way your engine-pressurizing stage is always using the tank reservoir of oil to deliver to the engine and doesn't have to worry about pickup tube starvation. If the pickup tube starves during cornering then no problem-o, since all that's doing is repleneshing the tank. As long as you have sufficient tank reserves for the pressurizing stage to access, you never lose engine oil pressure.

The CB pump is bolt on, no engine mods needed, and will fit behind the stock fan shroud. The lines go sideways. Just make sure you're running the right cam gear for it. If I think about it I can take a photo next time the car is on the lift.

[yeahmag]

With the CB pump, you do need to clearance the pump drive tang that slots into the cam a bit. It's technically designed for a Type I that has/needs a longer tang.

[GregAmy]

With the CB pump, you do need to clearance the pump drive tang that slots into the cam a bit. It's technically designed for a Type I that has/needs a longer tang.

I don't know the answer to that. Chris Foley built the engine originally; I'd ask him about it.

Edit: I briefly recall him mentioning it was "a modified CB pump" so that could very well be the case.

[yeahmag]

That wasn't a question. The drive tang needs to be modified like any Type I pump does to fit a Type 4. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ChrisFoley]

Is plumbing needed to bottom of engine, maybe to tuna can to scavenge oil from engine? How does system work? If oil pump is used to pressurize oil into the engine, what pulls oil from engine to the tank?

I currently have AN 10 braided lines between engine and front oil cooler. Maybe I can front mount a tank and utilize these lines.

Can someone diagram the oil flow for me?

Thanks,
Jim

No external plumbing needed on the crankcase to use the CB dry sump pump (although for my own race engines I do quite a few additional mods). The criss/cross is built into the pump body.
As Greg described, the two external lines connect to the protruding portion of the oil pump. Engine mounts need modification to accommodate the fittings.
The size of the CB pump scavenge stage is barely adequate. Also, the inlet/outlet thread sizes are too small for the fittings/hoses I want to use. Therefore, for my own race engines, I do extensive work on the pump before using it.

I always use -12AN lines when installing front mounted oil coolers. For rear mounted coolers I'll use -10. In my opinion -08AN is too small for external oil systems on a Type 4 engine. I try to remove as many flow impediments as possible so the system isn't working harder than it has to, ie wasting horsepower.

Someone upthread mentioned a pickup mod I like. I have the prototype on a shelf near my welding bench, along with a small stack of cut sheetmetal pieces. I haven't made any fixturing to make assembly quick and easy though. With "wings" attached to the front and back of the pickup bell, side-to-side oil slosh should be significantly reduced.

[GregAmy]

The size of the CB pump scavenge stage is barely adequate. Also, the inlet/outlet thread sizes are too small for the fittings/hoses I want to use. Therefore, for my own race engines, I do extensive work on the pump before using it.

I'd agree with that, Chris. As I observe the sump tank flow at idle I note that there's a constant stream of oil going back into the sump tank, it never varies.

However, on your race engine that I was using in '19, I'd see the flow back into the sump tank acting in streams and spurts/burps. At first I thought there was something wrong but then I realized the larger pump in the race engine was simply running out of oil in the case to pick up. Which pump are you using in that engine?

That's also why we had to put AN10- to -12 adapters from the CB pump to the AN-12 lines. I gave thought to modifying the oil pump case for AN-12 but in the end it seems to be working adaquately for my <6500 RPM usage.

[ChrisFoley]

Which pump are you using in that engine?

Pretty sure its the same CB performance pump. Might have a blue cover with a Schadek label.

[Bleyseng]

I will say Tuna can, big giant holes in the windage tray, close the head vents and use a 75-76 oil filler with the big venting, New heads from Len with thermal coatings in the combustion chamber and exhaust ports plus a Raby 9090 Djet cam (runs cooler than a web73. Run 1/2 qt of oil overfilled and away you go. Pay attention to what oil wieght use use as high oil pressure over 35 psi means oil is getting to the cooler. Or do a remote cooler and run higher psi