London bombed again!, Not as bad Options

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ Jul 22 2005, 08:07 AM)

the story... he don't sound too innocent to me

So, next time you're running through a metro station in Paris trying to catch a train, and several guys shouting at you in French knock you to the ground and shoot you dead, I'm sure you'll feel it was justified while you wing your way to heaven...

Running doesn't always mean you're guilty of anything, and it certainly doesn't mean you're guilty of a capital offense. If the guy had been a white and dressed in a business suit carrying a briefcase, do you think they would have shot him?

Once they knocked him to the ground, the incident should have been over. Shooting him even once anywhere at all was WAY beyond reasonable. If it later turns out the guy was harmless (perhaps he didn't speak English, perhaps he really was just running to catch a train because he was late, perhaps he was just a purse snatcher), then if they hadn't killed him, apologies could be made and it all would have gone away. Now that the guy is DEAD, they can't really take it back, now can they? The cops may be reprimanded, but that guy is DEAD.

[Randal]

[QUOTE]So, next time you're running through a metro station in Paris trying to catch a train, and several guys shouting at you in French knock you to the ground and shoot you dead, I'm sure you'll feel it was justified while you wing your way to heaven...

I don't care what language you speak, when a police officer or officers yell at you, you pay attention. It doesn't matter whether you in London, Paris, Africa, India or any other place in the world.

There were four attempted bombings yesterday in London. Everyone in the UK is essentially in a War zone and have to act accordingly.

[Jenny]

Piss off, Alfred. You don't get to participate in "adult" discussions here.

(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/slap.gif) him, Clay!!

Jen

[lapuwali]

QUOTE (Randal @ Jul 22 2005, 08:42 AM)

[QUOTE]So, next time you're running through a metro station in Paris trying to catch a train, and several guys shouting at you in French knock you to the ground and shoot you dead, I'm sure you'll feel it was justified while you wing your way to heaven... I don't care what language you speak, when a police officer or officers yell at you, you pay attention. It doesn't matter whether you in London, Paris, Africa, India or any other place in the world. There were four attempted bombings yesterday in London. Everyone in the UK is essentially in a War zone and have to act accordingly.

The officers in question were plain clothes. The only way to KNOW they were cops was if you understood the English word POLICE. Do you know the word for POLICE in Swahili? In Chinese? In Arabic? Have you ever travelled to a country where you didn't speak the language?

All that aside, I don't have any trouble running the guy down and piling on top of him. I wouldn't get too upset if they roughed him up a bit. Killing him, however, was completely unjustified. They had him down. By reports, there were as many as 20 cops right there.

As for the superior training of the UK police, I've been roughed up by the vaunted London Metropolitan Police. I was pulled out of a line at an airport because (apparently) I fit that day's profile for a terrorist. It was incredibly stressful, I was searched, and got into a shouting match with an officer who kept asking "If you haven't got anything to hide, sir, why are you so upset?" I didn't have anything to hide (as they discovered), and I was upset because they went out of their way to wind me up and raise the stress level to the point where I shouting at them. The airline was sufficiently embarrassed by the whole thing that they upgraded me to Business Class w/o any prompting from me.

If 5-20 guys with guns (eyewitnesses said the guns were drawn during the chase) were running after ME, I'd considered running, too. Who's to know the guy's first thought wasn't "Oh god, it's the terrorists" and ran away to keep from getting shot?

[tat2dphreak]

desperate times call for desperate measures... when you visit a country, I would think "POLICE" and "STOP" should be on your list of words that you should be able to recognize... if they are not, maybe you should take a class in the language of the country you are visiting...

you are being very presumptious in assuming that the guy didn't speak english

sorry, I try to look at it from the VICTIM's point of view, but in this case, that may seem sketchy to you... the VICTIM is london, until more is known about what the guy was doing... he may end up being a victim, but right now, in my eyes, he was a criminal. I hate that anyone had to lose a life, but I'll take 1 person over 10, 20, or 2000 anyday.

if I were to visit Paris, or any country I would know the language well enough to get around.

also, in case you didn't read this part of the story, one witness DID say he saw wires and a harness under the jacket... if the guy had a detonator... that's reason to shoot on sight .

[Randal]

QUOTE

The officers in question were plain clothes. The only way to KNOW they were cops was if you understood the English word POLICE. Do you know the word for POLICE in Swahili? In Chinese? In Arabic? Have you ever traveled to a country where you didn't speak the language? All that aside, I don't have any trouble running the guy down and piling on top of him. I wouldn't get too upset if they roughed him up a bit. Killing him, however, was completely unjustified. They had him down. By reports, there were as many as 20 cops right there. As for the superior training of the UK police, I've been roughed up by the vaunted London Metropolitan Police. I was pulled out of a line at an airport because (apparently) I fit that day's profile for a terrorist.

"Plain clothes" Where was this reported? All the reports that I’ve read said the POLICE got this guy down and shot him. Wonder how the people knew that?

As to traveling to other countries where I didn't speak their language (s) yes I've traveled extensively, excluding Russia and a few places in South America. What you learn is that when you’re in someone else's country you need to pay attention to their rules.

My view: this guy was killed because the London police are under orders to take no risks with suicide bombers. It doesn't make any sense to allow the bomber time to detonate his explosives. That is also why they probably shot him in the head.

As to your experience, well how about being pulled out of line, waiting for a plane to leave the Middle East, and being given the old one / two, for absolutely no reason other that I was white? Trust me it is far worse there as I didn't (don't) speak Arabic.

And I understand when this happens it really pisses you off, but that is the risk we all take traveling to foreign counties. As soon as you set foot on foreign soil you are subject to their rules, like it or not.

In my view the people to criticize are the slimy wimps that are terrorizing innocent people, not the police who are trying their best to save lives.

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (Randal @ Jul 22 2005, 08:19 AM)

QUOTE So, apparently, they allow summary executions with no evidence of wrong-doing in the UK, now. I'd say it's a really bad time to be in the UK and not be white. Having lived in the UK for four years I developed strong opinions on the British police. They are extremely mature, professional and very well trained, in fact I believe better trained than in most countries as they have to rely (typically) on their brains to sort out situations, as they arise, i.e., they don't normally carry firearms. They would simply not shoot someone without cause and if they did there would be a formal enquiry to figure out what exactly went wrong. On the other hand running into a tube station, after being challenged to stop by the police, wearing a heavy coat in the middle of the summer, especially after what happened yesterday, isn't a very smart move.

I agree with Randal. I have spent time in London as well. I think we will learn more about this pursuit and subsequent shooting. If they had postive id and he was running into a train who knows if he had C4, etc strapped on him. I think they did what was prudent to save lives from a potential attack.

[914GT]

I see the hand-wringing over this has already begun

Muslims fear 'shoot to kill' policy

[redshift]

The Moslems need to be under pressure to bring out the assholes... the people that are killing our friends, and families..

Is it nice? Nope. Nothing about this is nice.

We are going to be nuked, and we are going to do nothing to stop it.



M

[nebreitling]

the fact that armed plainsclothes officers were after him means something in britain. according to the BBC, one witness said the suspect had wiring under his coat. in any case, it's too soon to know to what degree this was justified or not.

i wish the english the best through these difficult days, and applaud them for hunting these cowards down.

[redshift]

It's... uh... refreshing to hear that I am not a lone voice in the wilderness.

I'd like to protect our south border with the choppers that are on drug interdiction in Colombia.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=glance&s=books



M

[SirAndy]

QUOTE (Randal @ Jul 22 2005, 09:42 AM)

I don't care what language you speak, when a police officer or officers yell at you, you pay attention.

they weren't in uniform ... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)


this playground is closed ...
someone always has to spoil it ...
(IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/sad.gif) Andy