Show me your roll cage, Please! Options

[Charles Freeborn]

My AJRS built cage didn't pass tech (SCCA GCR)
The tubing is all to spec, just not enough. Needs diagonal bracing, front hoop cross bar, braces from hoops to wheel well / shock towers, double door bars.
It's tempting to cut it all out and start over with an AutoPower, but my car has the modified roofline so nothing off the shelf will work without extensive mods. I'll use the existing hoops and build from there.
Any pics greatly appreciated.
Thx.

[FourBlades]

Can you possibly pictures of what you have now?

John

[Jetsetsurfshop]

NASA made me install a petty bar. It starts at the bottom of the A-pillar and finishes right above my right shoulder. I made it a bolt style just incase I want to have an instructor.
I would never do wheel to wheel racing without the Nascar style door bars. They are right to require that. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

I agree with John. Let's see what they shot down.

[GregAmy]

Charles, what category/class are you building to?

>>> Needs diagonal bracing

A good idea. GCR also allows a diagonal from the main plane to a rear brace, which would pass through the rear window.

>>> front hoop cross bar

Depending on the category, yes.

>>>braces from hoops to wheel well

Depending on the category, yes.

>>> double door bars

Absolutely. That has been required, both sides, for some years now.

>>>I'll use the existing hoops and build from there.

Always a better idea, esp if you have a good starting point.

I can send you photos of my cage, built by @ChrisFoley . It was originally designed for Improved Touring back in '99 but stands the test of time 20 years later for pretty much anything, including Production.

I'm an SCCA National scrutineer, so glad to assist. grega at pobox com

GA

[Charles Freeborn]

Charles, what category/class are you building to?

>>> Needs diagonal bracing

A good idea. GCR also allows a diagonal from the main plane to a rear brace, which would pass through the rear window.

>>> front hoop cross bar

Depending on the category, yes.

>>>braces from hoops to wheel well

Depending on the category, yes.

>>> double door bars

Absolutely. That has been required, both sides, for some years now.

>>>I'll use the existing hoops and build from there.

Always a better idea, esp if you have a good starting point.

I can send you photos of my cage, built by @ChrisFoley . It was originally designed for Improved Touring back in '99 but stands the test of time 20 years later for pretty much anything, including Production.

I'm an SCCA National scrutineer, so glad to assist. grega at pobox com

GA

My primary run group is FIP (F improved production) which is a variant of the SCCA F production class. It's basically an FP with a gutted interior. The other class I anticipate is SCCA VP1.
By the time I cut out the existing non-compliant parts it will be a front and rear hoop and not much more. I'm figuring on a diagonal from the main hoop just clear of my helmet to the pass side A pillar base. The caveat is that in order to get it in the "same plane" as the main hoop I'll have to cut into the firewall bulge, which is fine as long as my car remains a 4 cyl. I intend to keep it a 4 as long as I run it, but eventual resale may think otherwise. I'll fall off that bridge when I get to it (or future buyer can). I'd go with the diagonals from the main hoop to the rear diagonals, but that interferes with my other issue which is cold air ducting to the cooling fan. Not out of the question, but an issue.
Door bars I'm totally on board with - just need to come up with a design that has enough room for me to get in and out with the lower roofline. It'll either be the twin bar with verticals (NASCAR) or the X pattern that is on many of the E46 class Bimmers. Need to get clarification on that one.
Front hoop cross bar, to my reading is "reccomended" but makes total sense to me. Also allows me to cut out the OEM steering supports and re-position, should I want to, as well as mount gauges, etc.
Rear hoop crossbar also ambiguous in the GCR, but as long as I can give it a bulge to clear the back of the seat (I'm tall so back of seat is basically against the firewall) I'm fine with that too. Again, if I cut into the firewall where the 6 fan housing would be it would clear as a straight stick.
When I get further along (just ordered up the tubing today) I'll sketch up some of my ideas and post here.
Many thanks for the assistance. I'm sure I'll need more of it as I go along.
-C

[GregAmy]

>>> My primary run group is FIP (F improved production) which is a variant of the SCCA F production class.

OK, so you need to meet Prduction regs? Does VP1 accept the same regs?

>>> By the time I cut out the existing non-compliant parts it will be a front and rear hoop and not much more.

Why are you cutting out parts? Sounds like you just need ot add some bars.

>>> I'm figuring on a diagonal from the main hoop just clear of my helmet to the pass side A pillar base.

Do you have tubes passing through a polycarb rear window? If so, you can run a diagonal from behind your head to the right rear mount mount and no longer require a main plane diagonal. I'm not clear how that would interfere with a cold air intake...

>>> Door bars...[will]either be the twin bar with verticals (NASCAR) or the X pattern that is on many of the E46 class Bimmers. Need to get clarification on that one.

X-bars are compliant; I think the regs actually say that? Remember, you don't have to be fancy, you just need "two door bars". That's it. So add a bar somewhere and you're good.

>>> Front hoop cross bar, to my reading is "reccomended" but makes total sense to me.

It is "required" in Production.

>>> Rear hoop crossbar also ambiguous in the GCR

Not sure what you mean by that? We do not require a diagonal within the rear legs plane. But you could use that to avoid having to do a main plane diagonal.

Feel free to hook up via email and maybe we can get on the phone this weekend. - GA

[Charles Freeborn]

>>> My primary run group is FIP (F improved production) which is a variant of the SCCA F production class.

OK, so you need to meet Prduction regs? Does VP1 accept the same regs?

>>> By the time I cut out the existing non-compliant parts it will be a front and rear hoop and not much more.

Why are you cutting out parts? Sounds like you just need ot add some bars.

>>> I'm figuring on a diagonal from the main hoop just clear of my helmet to the pass side A pillar base.

Do you have tubes passing through a polycarb rear window? If so, you can run a diagonal from behind your head to the right rear mount mount and no longer require a main plane diagonal. I'm not clear how that would interfere with a cold air intake...

>>> Door bars...[will]either be the twin bar with verticals (NASCAR) or the X pattern that is on many of the E46 class Bimmers. Need to get clarification on that one.

X-bars are compliant; I think the regs actually say that? Remember, you don't have to be fancy, you just need "two door bars". That's it. So add a bar somewhere and you're good.

>>> Front hoop cross bar, to my reading is "reccomended" but makes total sense to me.

It is "required" in Production.

>>> Rear hoop crossbar also ambiguous in the GCR

Not sure what you mean by that? We do not require a diagonal within the rear legs plane. But you could use that to avoid having to do a main plane diagonal.

Feel free to hook up via email and maybe we can get on the phone this weekend. - GA

The parts to remove are the current driver side door bar (single) as it'll be in the way of new twin bars, and the existing rear hoop cross bar which is incorrectly positioned and modified (non compliant) to allow seat to go fully back. I'll take some snaps and do some sketches and email.
Not sure if the VP1 class will have different regs. My guess is that the Production regs are more stringent, so VP1 will also be met.
Many thanks for your help.

[Charles Freeborn]

Pics of cage. I'll need to pop the roof off to get better images. Will try to do that this weekend if I don't melt.

Essentially its a front and rear hoop, upper bars and a single door bar on drivers side only. No diagonals, no bracing to wheel wells or shock towers. Just a simple 4 point cage.

[Charles Freeborn]

Here's what it looks like I'll need to add. Red is existing and can stay. Blue is what needs to go in. Drawing is not necessarily to scale or accurate - just conceptual.

[campbellcj]

FWIW, my cage has the basic design of what you drew above, except with X-brace door bars vs Nascar style, and I've never (yet) had tech issues in ~15 years. Getting that front knee bar forward enough away from the driver is really important.

[Jetsetsurfshop]

FWIW, my cage has the basic design of what you drew above, except with X-brace door bars vs Nascar style, and I've never (yet) had tech issues in ~15 years. Getting that front knee bar forward enough away from the driver is really important.

I removed my lower dash pad to get that knee bar up tight to the dash. Its never in my way for racing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

[brant]

FWIW, my cage has the basic design of what you drew above, except with X-brace door bars vs Nascar style, and I've never (yet) had tech issues in ~15 years. Getting that front knee bar forward enough away from the driver is really important.

I removed my lower dash pad to get that knee bar up tight to the dash. Its never in my way for racing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

the same here...
a friend had a bar below the dash... (tight to the lower dash pad)
broke his knee in a small racing accident

my dash bar is also behind the dash
much safer to move that bar higher... and further forward

[sixnotfour]

I cut the dash and rased it,,,,Closer to you is for side impact protection...before nascar bars

[Charles Freeborn]

FWIW, my cage has the basic design of what you drew above, except with X-brace door bars vs Nascar style, and I've never (yet) had tech issues in ~15 years. Getting that front knee bar forward enough away from the driver is really important.

No dash pad or interior in my car so I'll tuck the "knee breaker" as high and forward as possible. The only limiting factor is the structure the steering column is bolted to. I could even cut that out and integrate into the knee bar, but that's more work than I'm willing to take on right now.
The Steward who will sign off says it doesn't matter which style door bars (NASCAR or X). I'll choose whichever is easiest to navigate getting in and out of the car. I have truly enjoyed no side bars on the passenger side when it comes to working on the inside of the car. I suppose I could make those bolt in (rules allow) but again, more work than I can take on at the moment, unless I could fined ready made bolt in parts that I can weld to my tubing. That's a maybe, now that I think of it.

Thanks all, I've got tons to work with now.

[Charles Freeborn]

Got the cage adds done, approved and log book. Thx all.

[infraredcalvin]

Nice work!

[campbellcj]

Great news! Looking forward to some on-track vids & stories

[FourBlades]

Looks good!

Did you fab that yourself or get them somewhere?

John

[Charles Freeborn]

Looks good!

Did you fab that yourself or get them somewhere?

John

I cut and fit all the straight sticks. I had a local shop with a proper bender do the bends and then I fit those too. I did the welding.

[FourBlades]

Nice work, I have to do the same.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)