Gawd I Hate Points, Won't keep a tune Options

[bbrock]

Continuing the saga. I drove the car to town and back twice since the last tune-up. Roughly 80 miles total counting the test drive after the tune-up. The car was already starting to sputter and because hard to start. This morning I checked the dwell and once again, it had increased (51 deg).

Yesterday, the replacement points arrived. I swore I ordered Bosch brand points but what arrived were WVE brand which I have never heard of. I was mad and checked the order invoice and sure enough, they were listed as WVE. Not sure where the mixup occurred. I was a little less mad when I saw WVE is made by NGK. They also came with a little capsule of grease. They also look like they have fiber in the wear block like @jd74914 described.



Pulled the old points and compared to the new. Tried to get a better pic but the wear block on the old points is much shorter and now I can even see the angle of contact with the came worn into them. If these points started out with a wear block like the new ones, then they have lost about 2mm which is a LOT of gap chance.



Plugged in the new points and dialed them in to 46 deg dwell and reset the timing to 27 deg BTDC @ 3500 rpm with vacuum blocked off. Idling smooth at 650 rpm with vacuum connected (I have the vacuum retard connected too). Now we'll see if these points make the difference.

[bbrock]

Just returned from a trip to town of about 50ish miles round trip. Rechecked the dwell and get 46 deg. No change from where I set it this morning. So far, so good.

[jd74914]

Awesome-fingers crossed it stays that way. Your new ones look more “correct” to me with the thinner cam follower piece too.

[bbrock]

I'm singing this note 'cause it fits in well
With the way I'm feeling
There's a symphony that I hear in your heart
Sets my head a-reeling
But I'm in tune
Right in tune
I'm in tune
And I'm gonna stay
Right in tune

That should flush out the over 55 crowd (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But yes, I'm happy. Took the car over to Livingston for a Pizza run and the odometer turned over 2K miles since being put back on the road. That means in 3 months I've driven it way more than that Sotheby's car claims to have on it since new. That include a few hundred miles since swapping in the new points. I'm happy to report that it is still running oh so sweet. Might have to hook up the old dwell meter tomorrow just to verify with numbers, but boy is it nice to just be able to jump in and drive without feeling the perform deteriorate with every mile. It may be premature, but I'm calling this mystery solved. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cheer.gif)

[930cabman]

The smell of victory is sweet, often our 45+ years young sporting machines can test our patience

[Van B]

I just happened to speak to a Pertronix rep this last week when trying to make a purchase decision on a 1.8L dizzy application. I got lucky to speak to surprisingly knowledgeable tech & a ACVW owner.
His comments were interesting.
He said in our applications (ACVW in general & T4 specifically) for 90% of the owners he'd never recommend the purchase any of the III products.
The II offerings (points replacement & dizzy's) were the best option.

@914werke
Rich, would really love to hear more about this conversation! I just spent $180 on the v3. Given their reputation for shit customer service, I don’t want to install it if I’m guaranteed problems. So, anything more you can share would be great help… I can’t understand why they would list the v3 on their site for use on my car if it’s not gonna work, ya know?

[Van B]

I just happened to speak to a Pertronix rep this last week when trying to make a purchase decision on a 1.8L dizzy application. I got lucky to speak to surprisingly knowledgeable tech & a ACVW owner.
His comments were interesting.
He said in our applications (ACVW in general & T4 specifically) for 90% of the owners he'd never recommend the purchase any of the III products.
The II offerings (points replacement & dizzy's) were the best option.

@914werke
Rich, would really love to hear more about this conversation! I just spent $180 on the v3. Given their reputation for shit customer service, I don’t want to install it if I’m guaranteed problems. So, anything more you can share would be great help… I can’t understand why they would list the v3 on their site for use on my car if it’s not gonna work, ya know?

For posterity,
I finally managed to get ahold of a Pertronix rep and he said that what they are seeing is that the Ignitor III doesn't seem to get along with fuel injection. That includes any aftermarket or Bosch system. They suspect something about the signal causes the multispark to get confused. Thus, the Ignitor III is only an option for carb conversions. Otherwise, the Ignitor II is the best option for the rest of us.

[sportlicherFahrer]

@Van B The II is where its at. Part# 91847V. Ran with FI and carbs with 0 issues. Have also run it in conjunction with MSD on my carb setup with good results for a multi spark system. Not sure how MSD runs with original injection.

I'd try to return the III and swap it for a II if you can.

[Jett]

Old thread but common problem. Two months ago we put in new points and within 20 miles the pad had worn and they came out of adjustment. Threw them away and bought a German set (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Van B]

@Van B The II is where its at. Part# 91847V. Ran with FI and carbs with 0 issues. Have also run it in conjunction with MSD on my carb setup with good results for a multi spark system. Not sure how MSD runs with original injection.

I'd try to return the III and swap it for a II if you can.

I already bought the II and am waiting for the III to be delivered so I can scribble an RMA on the box and give it back to the driver lol...
I'm glad Rich posted the comment he did because it came up in my search, and prompted me to get ahold of Pertronix. Sadly, I didn't get the impression they would correct their fitment note to prevent other 914 owners from having problems with the III. So, that's why I posted it up here so future searches will have more info.

[rbzymek]

I also tried the Pertronix III on my 2056 with L-Jet. It would drop sparks at idle especially when hot. I switched to the Pertronix II and that fixed the issue. Very interesting what the rep advised. It should be on their website.

[914werke]

@Van B The II is where its at. Part# 91847V. Ran with FI and carbs with 0 issues. Have also run it in conjunction with MSD on my carb setup with good results for a multi spark system. Not sure how MSD runs with original injection.

I'd try to return the III and swap it for a II if you can.

I already bought the II and am waiting for the III to be delivered so I can scribble an RMA on the box and give it back to the driver lol...
I'm glad Rich posted the comment he did because it came up in my search, and prompted me to get ahold of Pertronix. Sadly, I didn't get the impression they would correct their fitment note to prevent other 914 owners from having problems with the III. So, that's why I posted it up here so future searches will have more info.

How's the saying go...? Evan a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[930cabman]

I recently sold a partly original 356SC with points/Webers. I owned her for 20 years and changed the points once, filed a couple times. Always started easy and ran out good

[scott_in_nh]

FWIW I've been running a Hot Spark points replacement for about 10 years and 40k miles and I literally have not touched the distributor since I put it in. The price is very reasonable too

[bkrantz]

Points and carburetors are like sextants and phonographs. Cutting edge in some previous century and now only for masochists and old guys.

[76-914]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

[r_towle]

I’ve honestly only had one bad round using points and it was the point wearing the rub block down.
They seem to be better now, Bosch only
I keep a few sets in the glovebox
The setting (fast) is a book of matches slid in.
Clean properly lubed distributor is key.

Carbs….must be super clean and I’m not a fan with todays ethanol fuels.

I would suggest maybe you look into the crank position sensor that goes behind the fan, then a modern multi spark control unit…MSD or other.

Rich

[jhynesrockmtn]

So far I'm a 123ignition fan. I pulled the 1.7 in my 70 last winter to solve a few leaks, valve adjust, general once over, new injectors, etc. I put the 123 distributor in and have about 300 miles on it now. So far so good. I also have one in my 6 conversion 2.4 liter.

[Front yard mechanic]

Happy to see this thread revived , remember you can tune a piano but you can’t tuna fish

[930cabman]

Happy to see this thread revived , remember you can tune a piano but you can’t tuna fish

But you can get it in a can, btw was that Mott the hoople?