How green are our 914s?, How can we reduce their carbon footprint to preserve the species? Options

[76-914]

I'm doing my part. $800 Junkyard Subaru engine transplants. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

[Root_Werks]

It's interesting to think about and seems most a person can do is based on behavior, not really what they drive. Drive seldom, walk or ride a bike to work, WFH etc.

To me, keeping something older alive is better than tossing it for something new. Heck, my riding mower is a 1994 and still runs like a champ.

I guess for the time being, don't really have to worry about too many new cars being manufactured.

My 914-6 conversion had 993 headers with two CATS. I liked that, but backdated to stock 914-6 heater boxes. I hope I don't have to smell unburned fuel now.

[RARE 6]

Despite working professionally on environmental issues before retirement, I don't worry about this a lot as far as my several old cars, including the 914-6 bought new 50 years ago, see limited use. But, if pressed, i rely on the final two points of the green mantra "Reduce, ReUse, Recycle".

[914e]

Having been a mechanic when O2 sensors and computer controlled fuel systems started. I would say that be a major improvement in emissions and drivability. Even without the Cats. When those cars came out around 82 they barely moved the needles on the Sun CO and HC machines. Isn't PMB working on a modern fuel injection system?

[barefoot]

Just leave them on jack stands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[mb911]

Sorry late to the party. I have integrated several cats into my mufflers over the years for those interested. It is hidden inside and works but obviously wouldn't pass visually. I use the high flow cats. I would be more that happy to make some up for folks wanting them

[rbzymek]

The main thing I think of that is not as environmentally conscious about our cars is emissions. But can those be cleaned up easily enough with a bolt on cat?

The problem is that it just isn't that simple. Is the better than nothing? Probably.

But at what cost? Catalytic converteres are not cheap. They are best implemented on a basis of systems engineering vs. a slap on fix.

Cat's run at very hot temperatures (up to 1600-1800F) that if not properly managed at best are going to cost you lost performance, poor emissions conversion efficiency, and at worst become a fire risk if not packaged carefully. The catalytic converter wants to the close the the heads for quick light off. Now you have a whole new cooling issue for air cooled engines. Revist the 911 2.7L six fiasco for a taste of how not to do air cooled engines with a Cat.

A good portion of the reason OEM's moved toward closed loop control (using O2 sensors) of Fuel Injection systems was to better manage the catalytic converter. Modern engines have as many as 4 catalysts and 4 O2 sensors on V-engines. You would really want at least two for the horizontally opposed nature of 914's.

I know a lot of people will find this hard to belive but there are times (like high load / WOT) at which the catalytic converter is running too hot and the FI system begins to dump in extra fuel just to manage the catalyst temperature and cool things down. Failure to keep it operating within the Cat design parameters results in the substrate breaking down, cracking, crumbling and eventually clogging up, resulting in backpressure that degrades the whole system or results in a non-running engine.

Don't want to come off as overly negative. It's just that it isn't as easy as just slapping on a Cat and then magic happens.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Add to the above that Cats need to operate at stochiometric (14.7:1) AFR to be effective at reducing HC, CO and NOx (AKA 3-way Cat). The controller actually dithers the fuel ever so slightly between rich and lean using the HEGO sensor to make it switch. But wait, an air cooled engine needs to run somewhat rich to be cool and stay happy. The Cats on California 914's were obviously the reduction only type designed to reduce HC and CO in rich mode. They work better with air injection (pump) but the NOx is uncontrolled and massive heat can occur if things go horribly wrong. That's why a temperature sensor was added. Bottom line: You need a water pumper (running stoic) to be able to use today's catalyst technology and meet the emission standards.

[TomE]

I have worked in the electric industry for about 30 years. Know what's going to happen when we are all forced into electric cars? You saw what happened in Texas during a cold snap right? Keep that 914 running cause you are going to need it.

[Larmo63]

Ride a bike or a skateboard if you feel guilty about driving your car.

That's all I've got.

[914Sixer]

WHO CARES (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

[mrholland2]

WHO CARES (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

I thought Who was on first?

[fixer34]

And then I read an article the other day about laboratory grown red meat and how it is supposed to replace your steak from an animal. Apparently the methane produced by all those farting cows is a significant contributor to 'emissions' and is 100x (or some number like that) worse at trapping heat and contributing to global warming.

[Tdskip]

1,000,000,000 (1 Billion) cars make up 4% of global emissions. Nothing we do matters.

If these stats are in fact true and nothing we do matters, there is little discussion.

My gut tells me may only be able to purchase electric vehicles at some point soon, maybe 20 - 30 years. At that point we should have more advanced e- technology.

Respectfully, I don't believe that data is accurate. Transportation is ~26% of the total, with road verticals being a highly significant portion of that at around 60%.

[Tdskip]

And then I read an article the other day about laboratory grown red meat and how it is supposed to replace your steak from an animal. Apparently the methane produced by all those farting cows is a significant contributor to 'emissions' and is 100x (or some number like that) worse at trapping heat and contributing to global warming.

Hi.

It is burping that is the issue actually, and methane is no joke. It is a powerful climate forcer, fortunately with a fairly short lifespan compared to CO2. You also have to consider the total land/feed/distribution supply chain. Some of us may not like it, but livestock as practiced today is terrible for the environment.

[Tdskip]

WHO CARES (IMG:style_emoticons/default/shades.gif)

Um, your kids, and their kids, and literally billions of other people care. You may not care, but the people we are leaving the planet do because they have to.

[Tdskip]

This whole "green" thing is a cult of Government as your god.

If you want to join this thread PLEASE stay factual and don’t turn political

Struggling a bit to reconcile these two statements.

[Tdskip]

HHO cell?

Hydrogen has huge potential to help keep ICE on the road IF you can generate it with a net-reduction in CO2, Porsche and others are doing a trial of this now. Fingers and toes crossed, not on if it works since we already know it does, but on getting to the point where you can drive the process with renewables quickly,

[TomE]

I am doing my part. I eat steak at least once a week and hamburger in some form on another day of the week. One cow at a time baby.

[Chris914n6]

Respectfully, I don't believe that data is accurate. Transportation is ~26% of the total, with road verticals being a highly significant portion of that at around 60%.

If came from a movie, I'll have to look it up.

But globally transportation is 15%, with about 4% being personal vehicles.

In the US 26% sounds right for total transportation but in the movie they quoted 10% for just personal vehicles.

Transportation includes boats, trains, planes, freight trucks, shipping boats, etc.

But still, experts are saying we don't have the minerals to build even half the 1B cars with batteries. So everything else won't be battery powered.

Also batteries are not tech, it's chemistry, and battery chemistry so far has taken an average of 20 years to evolve to the next better thing. Lead acid > nicad > nimh > lithium based > ??

[bbrock]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
Add to the above that Cats need to operate at stochiometric (14.7:1) AFR to be effective at reducing HC, CO and NOx (AKA 3-way Cat).

This also made me think that Cats also don't like the high ZDDP we put in our flat tappet engines.

Hi.

It is burping that is the issue actually, and methane is no joke. It is a powerful climate forcer, fortunately with a fairly short lifespan compared to CO2. You also have to consider the total land/feed/distribution supply chain. Some of us may not like it, but livestock as practiced today is terrible for the environment.

This happens to be my peculiar area of expertise. Like most everything else, it's complicated and this isn't the place to go into it. I'll just say that it's true that global livestock production is pretty devastating to the environment and it's true the way we raise beef in this country add a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/stromberg.gif) -ton of unnecessary environmental costs (and threatens food security). But... if you care about wildlife and healthy ecosystems, one of the most guilt-free meals you can eat is grass fed and finished beef or bison raised on native range land from anywhere the buffalo once roamed. Those areas NEED to be grazed to support native plants and animals and it's a damn delicious way to do your part (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Food for thought. Last week the US Fish and Wildlife Service declared the ivory-billed woodpecker officially extinct. The habitat that contained the last uncontested breeding colony of ivory-billed woodpeckers is now a soybean field.