Exhaust materials question. Options

[mb911]

I am sure by now everyone understands by now the dire shortage on almost everything right now. Stainless is no exception. I have enough material to make 50 more mufflers and then that's it. I can't afford to sit on 2-3 times the material costs to make the same qty of mufflers moving forward. I have long contemplated making steel versions of my mufflers and headers for both the 4cyl and 6cyl cars.

it is a way to keep everything affordable and continue the awesome design. It doesn't mean I would never make Stainless products any further but would mean that there could be a cheaper option.

So the question is would it be something folks would buy? I am not sure how many 1000 dollars would sell out of Stainless but I think steel for under 425ish would?

Thoughts?

[bdstone914]

I think there would be a market for a lower cost steel muffler. All the originals were steel and held up for many years.

[sixnotfour]

A Shop I know, Tried to buy a M&K 911 muffler.. None, No Stainless..

[Van B]

So, this is fortuitous timing. I had in mind to PM you about an exhaust setup for my 74 1.8.
One of the things I was going to ask was whether or not you had considered working with jet hot to ceramic coat your exhaust. I did a bit of a custom set up on my 911 and even though it was stainless, I ceramic coated everything but the exhaust tips. The reduction in heat is significant. And I can tell you through years of using jet hot ceramic on my race bike, it holds up real well for a very long time. High heat ares like the collector will lose a bit of the luster, but the coating will hold up just fine.

The best part is, if you are looking to make some exhaust out of mild steel, this can negate the corrosion issue and still deliver a reduced cost to the customer. I be happy to be at the top of your list for a system such as this.

-Van

[mb911]

A Shop I know, Tried to buy a M&K 911 muffler.. None, No Stainless..

Yup.. I know where those are made and they are local to me. Nothing either.

[mb911]

So, this is fortuitous timing. I had in mind to PM you about an exhaust setup for my 74 1.8.
One of the things I was going to ask was whether or not you had considered working with jet hot to ceramic coat your exhaust. I did a bit of a custom set up on my 911 and even though it was stainless, I ceramic coated everything but the exhaust tips. The reduction in heat is significant. And I can tell you through years of using jet hot ceramic on my race bike, it holds up real well for a very long time. High heat ares like the collector will lose a bit of the luster, but the coating will hold up just fine.

The best part is, if you are looking to make some exhaust out of mild steel, this can negate the corrosion issue and still deliver a reduced cost to the customer. I be happy to be at the top of your list for a system such as this.

-Van

Van I can make you what you want but at some point they will be stupid expensive unless stainless inventory starts to explode.

[Van B]

Ben, maybe I rattled on too much and my point got lost. What I’m suggesting is that you make some systems out of carbon steel, but you jet hot ceramic coat them to avoid rust issues, improve performance, and give a look comparable to 304 SS.
I think you could do all that and still come in at a price point lower than a raw stainless system.

Hooker headers uses jet hot for their long tube headers so, I know they do batch pricing.

[Aerostatwv]

Ben, maybe I rattled on too much and my point got lost. What I’m suggesting is that you make some systems out of carbon steel, but you jet hot ceramic coat them to avoid rust issues, improve performance, and give a look comparable to 304 SS.
I think you could do all that and still come in at a price point lower than a raw stainless system.

Hooker headers uses jet hot for their long tube headers so, I know they do batch pricing.

Van,

Is the jet hot ceramic process submerged or sprayed on? I would wonder about the internal corrosion if sprayed. But then again, I would think the majority of these cars are kept in the garage and not driven daily anyways.

Thanks,
Chris

[Van B]

Ben, maybe I rattled on too much and my point got lost. What I’m suggesting is that you make some systems out of carbon steel, but you jet hot ceramic coat them to avoid rust issues, improve performance, and give a look comparable to 304 SS.
I think you could do all that and still come in at a price point lower than a raw stainless system.

Hooker headers uses jet hot for their long tube headers so, I know they do batch pricing.

Van,

Is the jet hot ceramic process submerged or sprayed on? I would wonder about the internal corrosion if sprayed. But then again, I would think the majority of these cars are kept in the garage and not driven daily anyways.

Thanks,
Chris

They can spray inside and out. But the inside spray isn’t an option for cats or mufflers. It’s then baked on at 400F
The coating you see on my car is aluminized ceramic so, it can be re-polished and it reduces galvanic corrosion in some instances of fitment.

[ChrisFoley]

They can spray inside and out. But the inside spray isn’t an option for cats or mufflers. It’s then baked on at 400F
The coating you see on my car is aluminized ceramic so, it can be re-polished and it reduces galvanic corrosion in some instances of fitment.

Central Connecticut Coatings in East Hartford has been applying their dual coatings on my mild steel headers for the past 23 years. The exterior appears just as you pictured from Jet Hot, and the interior is dull, lacking the aluminum used in the exterior coating formulation. As far as I know, the interior slurry is applied by a rotating brush on a flexible shaft and the exterior is sprayed on.

[mb911]

Ben, maybe I rattled on too much and my point got lost. What I’m suggesting is that you make some systems out of carbon steel, but you jet hot ceramic coat them to avoid rust issues, improve performance, and give a look comparable to 304 SS.
I think you could do all that and still come in at a price point lower than a raw stainless system.

Hooker headers uses jet hot for their long tube headers so, I know they do batch pricing.

Oh for sure. I knew what you were saying. I do have a local source for that.. its an option

[mate914]

I say yes. Most 4's heat exchangers leak.
I say yes. A $500 6 exhaust would sell.
Matt

[barefoot]

Presume you're using 304 or 304L, have you looked into something like 410 which should be a much cheaper alloy ?
Not sure what OEM automakers are using, but exhaust systems seem to last the life of the car nowadays
Barefoot.

[Sea Rooster]

I bought a Dansk for my 73 2.0 and it to loud for me. I hate the sound. If I could get a less expensive replacement that is quieter and throaty I would go for it...

[mb911]

I bought a Dansk for my 73 2.0 and it to loud for me. I hate the sound. If I could get a less expensive replacement that is quieter and throaty I would go for it...

Well ask @Buddyv about mine. It's perfect sound level and construction but not long term sustainable. Stainless shortages will drive the retail upwards of 1200.. I retail now at 850 . Just blows me away we are in this situation.

[914_teener]

I bought a Dansk for my 73 2.0 and it to loud for me. I hate the sound. If I could get a less expensive replacement that is quieter and throaty I would go for it...

Well ask @Buddyv about mine. It's perfect sound level and construction but not long term sustainable. Stainless shortages will drive the retail upwards of 1200.. I retail now at 850 . Just blows me away we are in this situation.

I'd go with ceramic coatings and mild steel like Van is saying. One of the posting is correct they actually perform better and steel is more stable as a material with with heat....it's expansion is more linear than CRES which expands in different directions along with crevice corrosion which makes it have a tendency to crack.

My .02 from my materials backround.....from what I can remember. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/slits.gif)

[mepstein]

I bought a Dansk for my 73 2.0 and it to loud for me. I hate the sound. If I could get a less expensive replacement that is quieter and throaty I would go for it...

Well ask @Buddyv about mine. It's perfect sound level and construction but not long term sustainable. Stainless shortages will drive the retail upwards of 1200.. I retail now at 850 . Just blows me away we are in this situation.

It’s hard to know if this is the new normal or just a peak that will go back to previous levels once production increases. My guess is it will all settle down but take longer to get there than we want.

[Sea Rooster]

I bought a Dansk for my 73 2.0 and it to loud for me. I hate the sound. If I could get a less expensive replacement that is quieter and throaty I would go for it...

Well ask @Buddyv about mine. It's perfect sound level and construction but not long term sustainable. Stainless shortages will drive the retail upwards of 1200.. I retail now at 850 . Just blows me away we are in this situation.

Are there any sound clips available? Seriously contemplating the move...

[BuddyV]

Buy Ben's "quiet" for the 4 cylinder before you regret it...... his current price is a steal for what you get: beautiful product, hand made, well designed .

I have a 2056 motor on stock FI

I have tried everything from Bursch (which I believe made the most power, to Triad, to stock 2.0, to Ben's LOUD dual center muffler...... THIS quiet muffler is the best looking and best quality by far..... and the sound level is just right (for me). Ben's loud model was awesome.... made my car sound like a 6...... really..... maybe BIGGER! But I am getting older, and it was just too loud for me most of the time. I am keeping it for when I need to feel a bit younger (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I still have my stock 2.0 muffler that I might sell..... it was good..... I liked it..... but it is only getting older, and I like shiny things, so Ben's is my choice.

As soon as I ran the quiet muffler I noticed the car idled better, and driving seemed to have ideal back pressure...... it's only a seat of my pants review, but it was perfect for me after trying so many others over the years.

Wait a few weeks and I would not be shocked if his prices increase by 50%

Don't say I didn't tell you so.

Thanks, Ben...... excellent design. I even like the way it looks on the car.... cheers!

Robert

ps - contact me if you are interested in the stock muffler. They are getting more difficult to find

[speed metal army]

The ceramic coating on MS works and is a fine option. SS pricing will settle down eventually, but this is a no brainer as a second option.
Why not I say! Offer SS and MS coated options.
As a stainless guy, even I went MS coated recently. It made sense.
Same performance ultimately and will last. Not as pretty, but whateva.
It still looks pretty good to me.