Hoosier AS04 thoughts and impressions, i just corded a set... Options

[grantsfo]

Just some very subjective observations from my vantage point watching Nathan's car and those tires. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

1. Maybe on a bad day his car is putting out 115 rwhp, my butt-o-meter says its a little more. His car has more pull than my 220hp Boxster at low speeds and that was with my 270 lbs in the passenger seat.

2. I have had the pleasure of lining up behind Nathans car on grid and his starts are something akin to an out take from The Fast and the Furious - full wheel spin for a good 10 feet. He is also not shy about exiting some slower corners with those tires blazing occasionally. ...Trekkor you must have a video somewhere of one of those starts.

3. Now for thoses pics of demolished tires - yes they were terribly corded, but Nathan forgot to mention the drift competition at the end of the day at Marina that really knocked that rubbber off the tires. ...some of us were watching those festivities as we were changing our tires. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

4. From my ride with Nathan at Marina, greasy wasnt the feeling I felt as we went into corners. The grip felt similar to my A3S04s which only have about 30 runs. They were still sticking better than my Yokohama's.

It will be interesting to see how much Albert (the other 1.8 AX driver) and I get out of these tires since we cant really spin our rear tires like the more powerful cars. I think mine will last the rest of this year. Alberts is a two driver car so he will know very quickly how long these last. I also believe he ran quite a few fun runs at Marina so he is likely got just as many runs on his tires as mine after just 1 event. I have never driven any of Kuhmo's r compound tires, but I can say these tires make a big difference from my Yokohama's. I had a chance to run the tires back to back and the Hoosiers were easily worth a second over the Yokohamas.

I agree with Nathan on pressures. I have been having good luck running about 28 psi with my A3S04s. I'm going to try 26 next AX.

I picked up my A3S04s for $109 per tire from RS Racing on sale. I already have 30 runs on them and they easily have more than 3 more AX left. So my cost factor wont be as bad. Problem is that even with slicker tires Nathan will still go faster than most of us. I'll just go from a full 2-3 seconds off the pace to about 1 or 2. I'll probably be down around $5 to $6 a run if I only go 70 runs. Its worth it to me until somone comes out with a better or equal tire that lasts longer. I wonder if the AS05s are any better? They sure do feel stickier and from what I hear are supposed to have better feel.

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (Randal @ Jul 27 2005, 05:12 PM)

That motor of yours really does rock. I could never break my tires loose coming out of a corner when I was running 205's.

yeah, it's fast for a 2056, and it has a fairly wide power band. starts at 3.6k and goes all the way to 6k, where i shift. trekkor's car is quite a bit faster flat out, but i can out-torque him in the tight stuff slightly cause he doesn't keep his engine on the cam.

[xitspd]

Nathan,

The Hoosier AS04's are worth a minimum of 1 second over Yokohama A032's at the Big Track, Willow Springs. The Yoko's last almost twice as long however. I have burned up a set of Hoosiers at a two day race and TT event. They are without a doubt sticky....

Dan

[nebreitling]

QUOTE (grantsfo @ Jul 27 2005, 05:48 PM)

3. Now for thoses pics of demolished tires - yes they were terribly corded, but Nathan forgot to mention the drift competition at the end of the day at Marina that really knocked that rubbber off the tires. ...some of were watching those festivities as we were changing our tires. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif)

yup. i thrased 'em at the end of the day. 914's sure are hard to drift, but tons of fun! they were only showing cord after the timed runs. they were showing steel belt after the drift session.... i hate drifting as a sport, but that was about the most fun i've had in the 914....

and i launch with a little wheelspin... (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/aktion035.gif)

[KenH]

Nathan,

I found my Kumhos wearing as your tires even with -2 camber. Raised the pressure till noticed pretty even wear - they also stuck better as they warmed up.

I will loan you my pyrometer if want to measure tire temps and play with tire pressure.

Iwill not be at the next few AXs but if you or sombody can pick it up in Gilroy you are more than welcome to use it.

Ken

[Trekkor]

QUOTE

he doesn't keep his engine on the cam

Uh-hem...can't keep it on the cam. Not with this trans.
When we're doing 28 MPH you're ready to blast off at 3500rpms in 2nd.

I have to wait til the motor comes up to 5000rpms to catch you...You shift at 6k at 48 mph while I wait 'til 7300 rpm's and get to 59mph.

It seems to even out though, as we were .25 seconds apart at the end of the day.

Say "one...one...thou...sand" It's just the "one", over a 52 second run.

Now, if I had an "C-F-I-M-Q" a/x box...Ooooho, you'd know. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/idea.gif)

KT

[nebreitling]

i didn't mean it as a slight at all, trekkor. it does even out i think -- although i'd use more 1st gear if i were you. i know you're right on my heels!

[Trekkor]

I know you weren't diggin' on me. Just the facts of my powerband (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/wink.gif)

The last two a/x's have been get it in 2nd and go!

Let's do a fundraiser to get you another set of Hoosiers (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/clap.gif)

KT

[grantsfo]

Toyo RA1s are going for around $120 but they arent going to stick like a Kuhmo or Hoosier. In reading the AX boards I have heard early A3So4's had a problem with a lack of tread on shoulders that Hoosier corrected in later batches. I cant find the A3so4 on sale anywhere now.

They, Hoosier, also indicate that if your car has less than 3 degrees of neg camber and you run lower than reccomended pressure that patch (stire shoulder area) you show in the picture wears more quickly. So guess that means I'll be wearing that area as well since I'm not close to 3 degrees. Albert better make some changes soon!

A3s05's and V710's are supposed to wear better. Found the V710 for around $140. The Yoko is on sale at Tire Rack for $136. Have you thought about Hoosiers race compound tires? I thought those felt almost as good as the autocross compound. Just took a few turns to get them heated up.

[nebreitling]

ha! yeah, albert better get himself an alignment!!! grant and trek -- how are your tires wearing across the tread? for what it's worth, i think you could both put use more camber, as well. if you don't want to hack up your car, rich bontempi has the tarret plates/monoballs for $450. fair price. i have about a degree more neg camber than both of you, and i still wore them down on the outside shoulder.

ken, thank you for the kind offer. maybe when i mount up the new tires.

when i'm ready, i'm leaning towards the 710s... seem to be the best stick for the dollar -- plus they're robust enough for track use.

[grantsfo]

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jul 27 2005, 08:46 PM)

ha! yeah, albert better get himself an alignment!!! grant and trek -- how are your tires wearing across the tread? for what it's worth, i think you could both put use more camber, as well. if you don't want to hack up your car, rich bontempi has the tarret plates/monoballs for $450. fair price. i have about a degree more neg camber than both of you, and i still wore them down on the outside shoulder. ken, thank you for the kind offer. maybe when i mount up the new tires. when i'm ready, i'm leaning towards the 710s... seem to be the best stick for the dollar -- plus they're robust enough for track use.

Mine look good so far - fairly even wear pattern.

[Joe Ricard]

I think Grant's wear will be better because he has a "square face to side wall" profile using the 15 x 8 rims.
At least thats what I found with my Diamond wheels Only put 10 runs on them and took TTOD by 2 seconds. Hassan blew everybody away. Next event I had the Kumhos backon the car and he said What the hell happened to the car? Like driving on ice.
Well aside from more gas in the tank and a turn up on rear springs. Won't doth at again.
I ran 32 PSI and found lots of grip and even tire temp/wear. 1.7 degrees - camber front (all I can get even with Welt camber plates) and -2 at the rear.
I think the wider wheel contributes to that.
Uh yea the fenders needed some serious bending to get them in.

[drew365]

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jul 28 2005, 05:58 AM)

I ran 32 PSI and found lots of grip and even tire temp/wear. 1.7 degrees - camber front (all I can get even with Welt camber plates) and -2 at the rear.

Most of the posts I've seen in this thread make me think you guys are running the Hoosiers with too low pressure. Instead of using the rubber compound for grip, you're increasing the rolling resistance which is giving you grip but probably slowing you down from the times you should be running. The Hoosiers work best with more air than other brands of tires, but they need to get heated up to work, which I know is difficult on AX. If the 32# that Joe states here is cold, I think that is about right. I don't AX so I'm just talking from my knowledge of Hoosiers in general.

[nebreitling]

that's what i keep thinking, drew. i'm sure my tires would have lasted longer with more air pressure, but i keep coming back to the fact that i consistently ran my fastest times at around 27-28 psi -- hot.

so i don't know (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif)

btw, up until the very end, my tire wear appeared to be quite even across the width. this thread is making me think that perhaps the key is to fine tune your camber settings in order to put down a large contact patch, as opposed to letting the tire 'deform' into a large patch with low pressures.

[Joe Ricard]

QUOTE (nebreitling @ Jul 28 2005, 07:09 AM)

that's what i keep thinking, drew. i'm sure my tires would have lasted longer with more air pressure, but i keep coming back to the fact that i consistently ran my fastest times at around 27-28 psi -- hot. so i don't know (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/confused24.gif) btw, up until the very end, my tire wear appeared to be quite even across the width. this thread is making me think that perhaps the key is to fine tune your camber settings in order to put down a large contact patch, as opposed to letting the tire 'deform' into a large patch with low pressures.

And get wider wheels. the contact patch is really affected by the width of the wheel. keeping the tire from being pinched by a narrow wheel make the tread face round.
Just don't get UGLY ones.

[Trekkor]

My tires are wearing quite well.
The fronts have more wear, but the treadwear indicators are clearly visible.
The rears have those "track worms".
You can tell that I've been on the hard right handers just by looking at them (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/ohmy.gif)
The last three a/x's have all been clockwise with high speed rights at the end.

Here's a shot of my tires:
o=outside
i=inside
rf=right front
lf=left front

KT

[rhodyguy]

i was just thinking that exact thing joe. the 205 width on my 4 lug fuch wheels, and the somewhat "balloning" effect must contribute heavily to sidewall roll. my next step will be to disconnect the rear sway and see how much further i can confuse things. my car was very loose in the rear, sort of predictable, but time/ momentum was lost going off throttle a bit to keep the rear from coming completely around.

k

[Trekkor]

Here's the rears.

Can you see the rubber that has been pushed across the surface of the tires?

KT

[Joe Ricard]

QUOTE (rhodyguy @ Jul 28 2005, 08:11 AM)

i was just thinking that exact thing joe. the 205 width on my 4 lug fuch wheels, and the somewhat "balloning" effect must contribute heavily to sidewall roll. my next step will be to disconnect the rear sway and see how much further i can confuse things. my car was very loose in the rear, sort of predictable, but time/ momentum was lost going off throttle a bit to keep the rear from coming completely around. k

Yea on the advice of an "old guy" here I did that too. Disconnected the rear bar. then just took it completely off.
Now the inside rear tire stays in contact with the surface much better.
The tail can still get loose if the shocks are stiffened up. Probably need more front bar. I'll be tuning this during my school this weekend. Should be my last event on Kumhos. (IMG:http://www.914world.com/bbs2/html/emoticons/rolleyes.gif)

[grantsfo]

Has anyone tried the Hankook DOT AX slick (Ventus Z214) yet? They seem to be very comitted to motorsports with a full range of competition tires.

Here is a link to a place selling the DOT AX slick

http://www.aimtire.com/typ_tire.asp?ObjectID=6605