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> Members with 74 1.8, information needed for history of cars
StarBear
post Nov 28 2021, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Nov 28 2021, 12:55 AM) *

STOKED

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

mr. b is going to be happy too.

@L-Jet914 - this is your dad's car right. been in the family.
its more than gold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

and its a 606 engine stencil.
mr. b can get the headache figuring that out.

we got 604, 605, now a 606 and he has a A with a 607 on his website. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Pandora must have been really busy those months. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)
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Porschef
post Nov 28 2021, 08:45 AM
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@Big Len
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wonkipop
post Nov 28 2021, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE(L-Jet914 @ Nov 28 2021, 12:54 AM) *

I don't why the vacuum T was installed in between with the fuel pressure regulator and decel valve was done to connect the retard side of the vacuum port of my distributor. The port on my throttle body is capped off as pictured. I do know the engine had some major work done to it in the 80s cylinder heads etc. So it now has the configuration of two vacuum t's connected to the manifold vacuum port off the intake plenum giving vacuum to the retard side of the distributor, fuel pressure regulator and the decel valve, instead of just the decel valve and fuel pressure regulator.



@L-Jet914
its possible the retard vac hose set up was modified with the engine rebuild.

the way i see it the one reliable bit of original information is the white engine tune sticker.

that sticker shows only a retard vacuum hose to distributor.
instructs hose to be off for initial idle setting.

there is no hose shown to the right of distributor on diagram to the advance port.
VW has a consistent practice on these stickers across all models to show any hose that is there and to show if it is either disconnected or left connected for the idle setting.

so no hose on the advance distributor would have been the original state of the car.

to note, no hose means no connected hose to anywhere else.
it has to be remembered vw would have fixed a hose on to that advance vacuum port and tucked it under the distributor. the hose in that instance protects the interior of the vacuum port from moisture and dirt. this is how others describe their L Jet set up in old threads here.

from there you get to the throttle body.
it would have had the retard hose connected to the retard port down near the tin on the forward facing part of the throttle body. which it currently does.
the advance port would either not have been present on the throttle body or it would have been capped with a rubber or hard plastic fitting.

for whatever reason along the way, the advance port has been activated.
in a manner similar to a EC-B, but not quite.
its been activated with a manifold source after the throttle plate as well as the source before the throttle plate used on the EC-B. i won't go into that here. it works for you.

basically this one is the @ClayPerrine version. when it is in its original state.
thats what i work out from what i am seeing. retard connection only to TB.

we have not seen a fully intact version of this yet linking the distributor/TB set up to an emissions sticker and a tune sticker but i'm thinking this is it. EC-A = CP version.

its being installed as late as april 74.
the one on @JeffBowlsby website is first week of jan 74.
and @nihil44 has one from november 74.

its great that you have posted the photos you did.
they match the car on @JeffBowlsby 's website.
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wonkipop
post Nov 28 2021, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Nov 28 2021, 08:21 AM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ Nov 28 2021, 12:55 AM) *

STOKED

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

mr. b is going to be happy too.

@L-Jet914 - this is your dad's car right. been in the family.
its more than gold. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

and its a 606 engine stencil.
mr. b can get the headache figuring that out.

we got 604, 605, now a 606 and he has a A with a 607 on his website. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

Pandora must have been really busy those months. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/headbang.gif)



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

at least its possible to see that a 604 and 605 are EC-B engines.
and 606 and 607 are EC-A engines. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

or maybe our statistical sample isn't big enough yet?
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
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wonkipop
post Nov 28 2021, 03:16 PM
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@nihil44

yours is real interesting.

theoretically it should be like @L-Jet914 .
if that is what an EC-A is. by that i mean what i describe above for his car as possibly original set up.

but images seem to be saying its got no retard function.
is that so?
i found a thread on throttle body rebuilds and you had posted an image of your rebuilt TB. it appeared to show no retard port down below the idle screw?
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wonkipop
post Nov 28 2021, 03:33 PM
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@L-Jet914

i think i have figured out what the modification on yours does and why it might have been done.
its someone's idea of how to cancel retard at standing idle.

the basic idea would be the advance on the dist is being pulled at idle and counteracts the pull in opposite direction from retard.

retard at idle was an emissions thing.
it made combustion cooler for lower NOx emission.

the plumbing in the modification possibly also changes the way the distributor comes off advance as you deaccelerate. someone has done it because they believe it makes it drive a bit sweeter is my guess. it probably does, you are driving it. the only way to know what its doing would be to drive another 914 with the original set up and compare alongside.

stuff gets done to these cars.

esp. these ones with the first real smog engines.

EDIT
actually i might have that the wrong way around, re-reading your original description.
it seems they have gone for a different source of vacuum for the retard than the throttle body?

and maybe took the factory cap off the advance port and put it on the retard port.
and connected up advance when it was never connected. could be as simple as that.
some-one familiar with the EC-B engines looked at this one and decided it was "wrong" so they made an EC-B style set up?
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wonkipop
post Nov 28 2021, 04:19 PM
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another member here working on the texas twins has supplied what he has still on his shell.

its an EC-A california + EPA certified.
Vin is 13391. its exactly 30 cars after mine.
so late jan. 74

an EC-A being fitted virtually alongside an EC-B.

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StarBear
post Nov 28 2021, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Nov 28 2021, 05:19 PM) *

another member here working on the texas twins has supplied what he has still on his shell.

its an EC-A california + EPA certified.
Vin is 13391. its exactly 30 cars after mine.
so late jan. 74

an EC-A being fitted virtually alongside an EC-B.

Attached Image

So weird. Wonder if tuneup sticker specs are different. Getting more data; eventually we WILL find a correlating factor or spec.
Key question is : How are EC-A and EC-B engine equipment or setups different. “Should” be more than just the mileage/drivability setup issues.
Then, that whole engine tin numbers issue. No consistency to establish a pattern.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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wonkipop
post Nov 28 2021, 04:57 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Nov 28 2021, 04:30 PM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ Nov 28 2021, 05:19 PM) *

another member here working on the texas twins has supplied what he has still on his shell.

its an EC-A california + EPA certified.
Vin is 13391. its exactly 30 cars after mine.
so late jan. 74

an EC-A being fitted virtually alongside an EC-B.

Attached Image

So weird. Wonder if tuneup sticker specs are different. Getting more data; eventually we WILL find a correlating factor or spec.
Key question is : How are EC-A and EC-B engine equipment or setups different. “Should” be more than just the mileage/drivability setup issues.
Then, that whole engine tin numbers issue. No consistency to establish a pattern.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)


the factory manual describes only the EC-B set up.
talks about disconnecting both vacuum hoses for idle set - doing the timing at idle.

no mention of the single hose set up or descriptions of a vacuum hose going nowhere off distributor, or advance hose not being connected.

one thing to keep in mind. these are L Jet numero uno.
they likely were playing around as they went with different kinds of fine tuning of this set up. that double vac distributor had interesting possibilities when you think about it.
it had plenty of capacity in built for mechanical advance in terms of "performance" behaviour. but playing around with how you activated the vacuum advance had big pluses for meeting emissions and doing other stuff. and maybe some big minuses too.

the L jet on the 412s is set up completely differently at the same time. its running EGR in 1974. VW are really experimented with L jet doing lots of different things.
far as i know 412s also ran the EC code engine. but whether it was an EC-A or B or something else i don't know. never seen a 412 emission sticker to know.
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L-Jet914
post Nov 28 2021, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Nov 28 2021, 01:33 PM) *

@L-Jet914

i think i have figured out what the modification on yours does and why it might have been done.
its someone's idea of how to cancel retard at standing idle.

the basic idea would be the advance on the dist is being pulled at idle and counteracts the pull in opposite direction from retard.

retard at idle was an emissions thing.
it made combustion cooler for lower NOx emission.

the plumbing in the modification possibly also changes the way the distributor comes off advance as you deaccelerate. someone has done it because they believe it makes it drive a bit sweeter is my guess. it probably does, you are driving it. the only way to know what its doing would be to drive another 914 with the original set up and compare alongside.

stuff gets done to these cars.

esp. these ones with the first real smog engines.

EDIT
actually i might have that the wrong way around, re-reading your original description.
it seems they have gone for a different source of vacuum for the retard than the throttle body?

and maybe took the factory cap off the advance port and put it on the retard port.
and connected up advance when it was never connected. could be as simple as that.
some-one familiar with the EC-B engines looked at this one and decided it was "wrong" so they made an EC-B style set up?


So what you're saying is that according to my tune up sticker, the vac advance side of the distributor was not supposed to be hooked up to the rear port facing the trunk of the throttle body (I've checked no vacuum until off idle at the rear port and manifold vacuum at the forward facing port)? I've only driven the car as you see pictured in the engine bay. I never drove the car prior to any engine work etc. I would love to see a EC-A setup L-Jet engine in bone stock configuration to see if I should remove the added vacuum t and route the retard side of the distributor to the manifold vacuum side of the throttle body. This thread is becoming more and more interesting as I've read through this.
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Van B
post Nov 28 2021, 10:40 PM
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wonkipop
post Nov 29 2021, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE(L-Jet914 @ Nov 28 2021, 09:04 PM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ Nov 28 2021, 01:33 PM) *

@L-Jet914

i think i have figured out what the modification on yours does and why it might have been done.
its someone's idea of how to cancel retard at standing idle.

the basic idea would be the advance on the dist is being pulled at idle and counteracts the pull in opposite direction from retard.

retard at idle was an emissions thing.
it made combustion cooler for lower NOx emission.

the plumbing in the modification possibly also changes the way the distributor comes off advance as you deaccelerate. someone has done it because they believe it makes it drive a bit sweeter is my guess. it probably does, you are driving it. the only way to know what its doing would be to drive another 914 with the original set up and compare alongside.

stuff gets done to these cars.

esp. these ones with the first real smog engines.

EDIT
actually i might have that the wrong way around, re-reading your original description.
it seems they have gone for a different source of vacuum for the retard than the throttle body?

and maybe took the factory cap off the advance port and put it on the retard port.
and connected up advance when it was never connected. could be as simple as that.
some-one familiar with the EC-B engines looked at this one and decided it was "wrong" so they made an EC-B style set up?


So what you're saying is that according to my tune up sticker, the vac advance side of the distributor was not supposed to be hooked up to the rear port facing the trunk of the throttle body (I've checked no vacuum until off idle at the rear port and manifold vacuum at the forward facing port)? I've only driven the car as you see pictured in the engine bay. I never drove the car prior to any engine work etc. I would love to see a EC-A setup L-Jet engine in bone stock configuration to see if I should remove the added vacuum t and route the retard side of the distributor to the manifold vacuum side of the throttle body. This thread is becoming more and more interesting as I've read through this.


yes, thats what i understand the tune up sticker to mean.

our EC-B cars have a tune up sticker with both hoses shown and shown disconnected for timing at idle.

its interesting when you look at something like a 2.0L they have i believe both hoses shown connected for the timing.

it would in fact be easy to make yours an EC-B. you just plug the retard line directly into the retard port on the throttle body and take the cap off. thats what i think.

but you have a form of manifold vacuum on the retard so why upset the apple cart.
in a way you already have an EC-B set up.

we would also love to see a bone stock EC-A setup. we are guessing what it is off the tune up sticker and description by @ClayPerrine . his description of how he believes L jet ought to be set up seems to accord with EC-A.

---
the weird thing is the texas twin car probably came off the line the same day as mine.
given its 30 numbers on in the VIN and mine is about the middle of a day's production.
i forget the exact number. mine is around 45th car for the day. so the texas twin is probably right at the end of the day. so they are building EC-A and EC-B on the same day. and the funny thing is the dealers could easily have made an EC-B into an EC-A by just unplugging the advance and capping it and vise versa.
as far as i can tell. maybe there is more to it. i don't know.
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Big Len
post Nov 29 2021, 12:26 PM
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Here's a few pics of my 1.8. I don't see a 3 digit number anywhere.
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Big Len
post Nov 29 2021, 12:28 PM
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Big Len
post Nov 29 2021, 12:28 PM
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Big Len
post Nov 29 2021, 12:29 PM
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Big Len
post Nov 29 2021, 12:30 PM
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Van B
post Nov 29 2021, 01:14 PM
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@Big Len
First, your car looks incredible man, I'm jealous!

Second, where you were standing for that last photo, look just inside the engine bay there under the little section of grill. There should be emissions sticker everyone is talking about. It's tucked up in that corner pretty good. easier to spot really if you stand on the right side of the car and look across.
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Big Len
post Nov 29 2021, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Nov 29 2021, 02:14 PM) *

@Big Len
First, your car looks incredible man, I'm jealous!

Second, where you were standing for that last photo, look just inside the engine bay there under the little section of grill. There should be emissions sticker everyone is talking about. It's tucked up in that corner pretty good. easier to spot really if you stand on the right side of the car and look across.


Thanks for the compliment......Ok Van, I'll check.
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wonkipop
post Nov 29 2021, 03:40 PM
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thanks for posting up @Big Len
very nice looking car.

1st of Feb 74? its about 600 after mine.
the plumbing looks the same as what is on my engine.
likely its an EC-B?
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