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> 1974 914 1.8, the mystery of the EC-A and EC-B
Van B
post Dec 29 2022, 12:16 PM
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Here’s my rain tray. All original, all philips head metric fine pitch, no stand offs, and not even removed when they did the garbage paint job some years back


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StarBear
post Dec 29 2022, 01:28 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Dec 29 2022, 01:10 PM) *

Fellas!

NOS TTS for our cars on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255490292323

I bought one so… three left!


Thanks! Thinking about it though at that price maybe hold off as just bought a $100 orbital polisher to do my windshield this winter.
How critical are these TTS, and do they fail often? Mostly for initial, cold starting?

BTW, checked PET page 124; the part numbers are different: 022 906 164 for ECO 037 551- and 043 906 163 for ECO 037 552+. Would this make a difference? 022 vs 043 just supplier part number (VW vs other?).

Also, I've never been quite sure, but is ECO 037... referencing the engine number? If so, what is the difference for a 1.8 at that split (551/552) in the numbering?
Still learning this stuff....
@wonkipop
@L-Jet914
@Van B
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wonkipop
post Dec 29 2022, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Dec 29 2022, 01:28 PM) *

QUOTE(Van B @ Dec 29 2022, 01:10 PM) *

Fellas!

NOS TTS for our cars on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255490292323

I bought one so… three left!


Thanks! Thinking about it though at that price maybe hold off as just bought a $100 orbital polisher to do my windshield this winter.
How critical are these TTS, and do they fail often? Mostly for initial, cold starting?

BTW, checked PET page 124; the part numbers are different: 022 906 164 for ECO 037 551- and 043 906 163 for ECO 037 552+. Would this make a difference? 022 vs 043 just supplier part number (VW vs other?).

Also, I've never been quite sure, but is ECO 037... referencing the engine number? If so, what is the difference for a 1.8 at that split (551/552) in the numbering?
Still learning this stuff....
@wonkipop
@L-Jet914
@Van B


yes its the engine number.
up to 551 is 74. from 552 on is 75.

regarding the first three numbers on the part number.
usually in VW parlance the first three numbers refer to the model the part was first used on. in this case however i don't see that for either of part numbers in PET for this thermo time switch. they do have other conventions on those first three numbers. belonging to a parts group etc.

so is the thermo time switch different for 74 to 75?
i'm going to guess its the same because i am pretty sure the cold start injector is the same and the TTS controls that. its only the first three numbers are different.
what would have possibly made it different. only emissions laws, some fine details on cold start warm up emissions? i don't think there was anything that fussy going down in 74/75.

anyway. i can do a bit more poking around on that but i am sure @Van B will have already done his research.




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Van B
post Dec 29 2022, 08:54 PM
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You both may remember all the learning I did sorting out the FI last year, but I’ll give the sort version.

When the TTS fails, your CSV will only work during cranking. Which means you don’t get the 8 sec extra when cold. The later versions for the 75 and 912E give you 13 sec.

So, in warm weather, TTS is irrelevant, but it’s an important part for cold mornings. It gets your RPMs up long enough to get the flow running through the AAR and open the barn door on the AFM.


Bosch and Porsche say this is the superseded part, which I bought, but it is digital circuits and I’m not sure it works correctly in our cars.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-thermo...sch-13621362599
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StarBear
post Dec 29 2022, 08:57 PM
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On the AA site it provides a 928 part number availability. Have seen that in a few other instances. Maybe a small difference in the eBay part number, bring Bosch instead of VW or other. I think I have an alternate parts listing, from Bowlsby IIRC.
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StarBear
post Dec 29 2022, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Dec 29 2022, 09:54 PM) *

You both may remember all the learning I did sorting out the FI last year, but I’ll give the sort version.

When the TTS fails, your CSV will only work during cranking. Which means you don’t get the 8 sec extra when cold. The later versions for the 75 and 912E give you 13 sec.

So, in warm weather, TTS is irrelevant, but it’s an important part for cold mornings. It gets your RPMs up long enough to get the flow running through the AAR and open the barn door on the AFM.


Bosch and Porsche say this is the superseded part, which I bought, but it is digital circuits and I’m not sure it works correctly in our cars.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-thermo...sch-13621362599

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)
Will keep this in my reference notebook. Thanks!
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wonkipop
post Dec 29 2022, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Dec 29 2022, 08:54 PM) *

You both may remember all the learning I did sorting out the FI last year, but I’ll give the sort version.

When the TTS fails, your CSV will only work during cranking. Which means you don’t get the 8 sec extra when cold. The later versions for the 75 and 912E give you 13 sec.

So, in warm weather, TTS is irrelevant, but it’s an important part for cold mornings. It gets your RPMs up long enough to get the flow running through the AAR and open the barn door on the AFM.


Bosch and Porsche say this is the superseded part, which I bought, but it is digital circuits and I’m not sure it works correctly in our cars.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-thermo...sch-13621362599



excellent summary.

i could half remember you had done all that homework @Van B .

i'll look into maybe picking one of these TTS. the aussie dollar is very weak against the USD at the moment so its a pretty expensive bit to pick up but i may just bite the bullet.

thanks for the tip off.
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StarBear
post Dec 30 2022, 11:00 AM
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Good thing I checked my stash inventory list - I already have a used/tested unit.
In the process, I seem to have taken good notes (see pics); in 1974 and earlier they used 022 for the fuel injection group, changing this part to the electrical group, 043, by July 74 (see pic with date) hence the change in part number. 13C and 8 secs as shown in pic.
As further pics show the 022/043 part number is VW/Audi; the 028 number is Bosch. Same unit. Should work just fine, @wonkipop .

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Van B
post Dec 30 2022, 04:24 PM
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Yeah that’ll do nicely. The resistor type are what our cars need. The new style with the long hex body don’t speak the same language.
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L-Jet914
post Dec 31 2022, 08:34 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Dec 29 2022, 11:28 AM) *

QUOTE(Van B @ Dec 29 2022, 01:10 PM) *

Fellas!

NOS TTS for our cars on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/255490292323

I bought one so… three left!


Thanks! Thinking about it though at that price maybe hold off as just bought a $100 orbital polisher to do my windshield this winter.
How critical are these TTS, and do they fail often? Mostly for initial, cold starting?

BTW, checked PET page 124; the part numbers are different: 022 906 164 for ECO 037 551- and 043 906 163 for ECO 037 552+. Would this make a difference? 022 vs 043 just supplier part number (VW vs other?).

Also, I've never been quite sure, but is ECO 037... referencing the engine number? If so, what is the difference for a 1.8 at that split (551/552) in the numbering?
Still learning this stuff....
@wonkipop
@L-Jet914
@Van B


The TTS complete with bracket, I acquired from Jeff Bowlsby as part of a L-Jet roadside fix it kit for the TTS shows VW PN: 022906163 Bosch PN: 0280130202 11/73 (build month?) and 15 degrees C 8 seconds.
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wonkipop
post Jun 3 2023, 06:35 PM
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EPILOGUE to the 74 L Jets with some information gathered along the way concerning the 75 L Jet 1.8s.

In 75 there again was 2 different versions of the 1.8 L Jet.
One for USA (49 states) and one for California.

@JeffBowlsby has a publication on his website which identifies these two different engines with non-clamenture similar but not identical to the 74 models.
The publication is MODEL 75, Service and Training Information.
on page 11 the following is listed.
EC-a (USA)
EC-b (California).
This is the only place this designation is found in literature to date.
note - it is the reverse of the notation for the 74 engines and lower case a and b is used instead of the upper case used in 74. in 74 the B was the USA engine and the A was the california spec engine.

For 1975 the production cars and CARB documents identify the engines instead using a new notation named Engine Family.

Engine Family 15 is the EC-a (USA engine).
Engine Family 16 is the EC-b (California engine).


--------------

Engine Family 15 and 16 engines are most obviously identified by 1) Emission Sticker and characterised by 2) Engine Tune-up Sticker, 3) painted number stamp and 4) the fitment of EGR and CAT in the case of californian spec cars.

---------------

ENGINE FAMILY 15. (49 states).

1. Emission Sticker.

Located on the cast fan shrounding, left hand side of engine.
USEPA compliant only.

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2. Engine Tune-up Sticker.

Located on the upper tin-ware, left hand side of engine.
shows both vacuum hoses to distributor, both to be disconnected for tune-up.
(unlike 74 models both engine families had identical tune up stickers in 75).

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3. Painted Stencil Number on Engine Tin.

located on either left hand side of engine,
or on both sides of engine. the engines are marked with either 918 or 920.
Similar to 74 cars the two different numbers designate whether the engine was fitted with the oil temp sensor sump lid and associated wiring (for console and gauge option) or the standard sump lid.
918 = standard sump lid cars (no temp gauge).
920 = oil temp sensor lid (console + gauge cars from factory).

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4. Emission Equipment.

the engine family 15 (EC-a/49 states) engines are set up very similar (almost identical) to the 74 EC-A (california) cars. No vacuum advance port on throttle body and vac advance hose from distributor tucked under intake plenum. The decel valve was of a different design to the 74 cars. Charcoal Cannister location was altered to beside the battery. ECU and AFM was updated and was a different part # to 74 (though this may have occured early in the run of 75 models and not at the start of production, some 75s used the earlier AFM and ECU from the 74 until stocks were exhausted).

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-----------

ENGINE FAMILY 16 (California)


1. Emission Sticker.

Located on fan shroud, Left hand side of engine.
USEPA and California Emissions compliant.

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2. Tune-up Sticker.

Identical to eng. fam. 15 in same location.

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3. Painted Stencil Number on Engine Tin.

Located on either left hand side of engine or on both sides of engine.
the engines are marked with either 919 or 921.
919 indicates standard sump lid engines (no temp gauge).
921 indicates oil temp sensor sum lid engines (console/gauges option from factory).

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4. Emissions Equipment

the Engine Family 16 (EC-b/California) are set up with EGR (ex gas recirculation ) and a CAT. the EGR uses a throttle body similar (virtually identical) to the 74 EC-B (49 states engine), the TB has a vacuum port above the throttle body. the EGR is activated by a vacuum hose from that port and operates at times of high engine vacuum when not idling (ie highway cruise). the vacuum advance line from the distributor is not connected and is tucked under the intake plenum as per 74 EC-a engines and 75 E. F. 15 engines.
there are further detailed differences. unique distributor without ignition cut off rotor and a fuel cut off switch incorporated instead.
note - the position of this canister has likely been flipped 180 degrees to allow connection of a right hand side heater booster fan hose (non original-later dealer or owner modification) - the original hose connections have been maintained.

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wonkipop
post Jun 3 2023, 06:37 PM
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CARB documents covering the 1975 model year outline the differences in spec that cover Engine Family 16 cars for the californian market.

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L-Jet914
post Jun 3 2023, 10:37 PM
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hey hey hey stay out of my treasure trove carb archives (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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wonkipop
post Jun 4 2023, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE(L-Jet914 @ Jun 3 2023, 10:37 PM) *

hey hey hey stay out of my treasure trove carb archives (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


let me into any archive and its all over. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
thanks for the keys to that vault. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

i never thought i would ever end up an emissions nerd.
but i have become fascinated by technology.
and its beginnings.
probably no different than being over interested in apollo moon mission technical artefacts. its a fascinating time in humanity when the 914 is in production.
up against the wall with the EPA really coming at them.
no different than LOR, lunar orbital rendezvous i have decided.
john houlbolt is one of my childhood heroes.
he stood up to werner von braun and the rest of them and told them he was right.
and he was.
basically the architect of the apollo design. at a concept design level.
which is what someone in germany was doing when they came up with L jet.
love to know who thought of L jet.
its the same heresy as LOR for the moon missions?
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wonkipop
post Dec 25 2023, 05:28 PM
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doing a bit of research.
images from the bundesarchiv (available from wikipedia).

914 on the VW banked test track.
date is interesting - Jan 1973.

they would not have been testing the 2.0 L engine at that time.
already in production. would have been earlier on that model.
all the early testing would have been done in 1968 on the original cars.

my bet (educated guess) is this is the L jet engine being tested.
probably on durability runs.

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