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914/4: 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 914/6: 70 71 72

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> 1974 914 1.8, the mystery of the EC-A and EC-B
StarBear
post May 19 2024, 05:17 PM
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Minutia rules!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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JeffBowlsby
post May 22 2024, 08:08 AM
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My original BB VIN 4742914536 has its original black sunvisor pins, SIGLA windshield and smooth grey engine bay pad.
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Artfrombama
post May 22 2024, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE(JeffBowlsby @ May 22 2024, 09:08 AM) *

My original BB VIN 4742914536 has its original black sunvisor pins, SIGLA windshield and smooth grey engine bay pad.

As does #4742910621
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wonkipop
post May 22 2024, 04:22 PM
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thanks gents.

a few things have been cracked about the 74s out of data concentrating on the harmless and humble 1.8s. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

those black ripple back pads seem to be very concentrated in 2 weeks in Nov 73.
who knows.

i probably should sit down and put all this data in one concentrated table.
its presently scattered throughout this topic as we found the various changes over last 4 years.
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davep
post May 25 2024, 12:28 PM
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This is great work that you have done! I am very grateful that I am not the only one to tackle the challenges of documenting these cars. I am not sure if you are aware of the transition of the Karmann body # from the rear trunk floor to the front trunk tag. This appears to occur in a progression from holes punched into the panels (left or right) to having the tags installed. This is near 4742917000.
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StarBear
post May 25 2024, 12:43 PM
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Another rabbit hole to explore! Yay!!!
Mine is near that VIN. I’ll check, as my recollection fails me at the moment.
All hail, minutia!
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wonkipop
post May 25 2024, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE(davep @ May 25 2024, 12:28 PM) *

This is great work that you have done! I am very grateful that I am not the only one to tackle the challenges of documenting these cars. I am not sure if you are aware of the transition of the Karmann body # from the rear trunk floor to the front trunk tag. This appears to occur in a progression from holes punched into the panels (left or right) to having the tags installed. This is near 4742917000.



yes. did notice that one along the way with 1.8s.
but not with the accuracy you have dave.
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davep
post May 25 2024, 04:19 PM
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This is my thread for research on this:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76497
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StarBear
post May 25 2024, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ May 25 2024, 02:43 PM) *

Another rabbit hole to explore! Yay!!!
Mine is near that VIN. I’ll check, as my recollection fails me at the moment.
All hail, minutia!

Checked. Yep, mine is on the right front wheel housing in the frunck. 2909760.
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wonkipop
post May 25 2024, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE(davep @ May 25 2024, 04:19 PM) *

This is my thread for research on this:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76497


yes dave, know the thread. posted some stuff there for you a little while back.

increasingly my theory around all the numerous minutia (as steve calls them) changes is that VW begins to revolutionise with the increasing use of plastics for components.
this co-incides with the introduction of the water cooled models - passat, golf and importantly scirocco. the scirocco is the first into production and it happens at karmann factory. so you start to see things like plastic pins for sun visors instead of chrome metal, plastic components in the fuel system like the plastic expansion tank on the fuel tank. plastic components in the vapor emissions system. and the more archaic and indiosyncratic karmann practices for body identification stamps are brought into line with VW standardised methodoloy - ie the rivetted production number tags in the front trunk. the 74 914s benefit or a recipients of the big changes that came with the water cooled cars and the overhaul of VW manufacture. probably down to rudolph liedling driving that overhaul bringing VW back from the edge of bankruptcy.

and of course. L Jetronic. (not having a go at the D jet guys, it was revolutionary).
L jet gets its first try out in the last of the aircooled cars with the type 4 engines.
and then its all L jetronic and no more D jetronic for VW (at least for USA VWs).
here in Aus we missed all that. VW stayed with carbs for another decade with models sold here, similar to Europe and South Africa. so our markets never got these original systems versions. these days mechanics still marvel at my L jet - as an archaic curiousity - since anything they see down here is much later on in L jet development.
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davep
post May 25 2024, 05:26 PM
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True, and also Porsche assumes full control over the VW-Porsche marketing group and asserts more control over the 914.
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wonkipop
post May 25 2024, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE(davep @ May 25 2024, 05:26 PM) *

True, and also Porsche assumes full control over the VW-Porsche marketing group and asserts more control over the 914.


although that itself is smudgy territory if you think about it because VW actually markets porsches in the USA via Audi/Porsche which is a division of VW north america.

i am more inclined to think that VW still takes a very active interest in the technical side of things as L jet is a Bosch driven thing with VW. Porsche itself has no interest in L jetronic really until I think they start putting it on the 964. sure its in the 912E but thats because porsche can't source a 4 cylinder from anywhere else that can meet USA emissions laws in 1976. but thats pretty much it for that tech in 911s etc until the very late 80s. except for the 924. and thats another VW engine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

my sense is that Porsche via Audi/Porsche determine more actively how the 914 is packaged for north american sales. It was still selling ok in North America in 1974.
In Europe it wasn't. It was already over in a way. The scirocco saw to that in 1974 and sealed its fate on the continent. Sold at a rate 4 times the 914. VW was swinging its attention on to its water-cooled models and in a way also its first real sports car with that karmann built scirocco. All of its own making too, no involvement from Porsche. And it actually went. reasonably fast. fast enough to compete with lower model Alfas and Fiats etc.

You can't dismiss that its VW who are building the 914 in one of their factories.
Not Porsche. They don't build it. I think production line decisions and components are very much VW territory right to the end of the 914. even the fabulous tartan interiors of late 914s are nothing other than scirocco materials and components, designed first and foremost for the scirocco not the 914.

The success of the scirocco also pretty much killed off the 924 as originally envisaged too, dead in its tracks - at least as a possible VW sports car.
Porsche got a last minute reprieve with that. more than anything VW just needed something to do with the NSU factory after shutting down the wankel RO80 or Porsche would not even have been in a position to build the 924? at least not in the production numbers and scale that made it stack up on the $.

Just as well really. Australia got the 924. right hand drive. made up for never getting the 914. also VW never brought the scirocco to Australia. suspect if they had it would have robbed Porsche sales of the 924?
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wonkipop
post May 25 2024, 07:43 PM
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dave - 1974 on is actually a very interesting moment in VW and in Porsche's history.
or should i say from about late 1971 - early 1972 on.
and not a lot of very good history has been written about it.
though i am sure that some will be written soon.

the 914 is like the book end to piech's first career so to speak.
career 1 ends in disaster despite the racing successes.

piech does a lot of interesting things in the couple of years between getting the neck at porsche over the fiasco with the Golf replacement and the termination of porsche's lucrative engineering contract with VW and popping up again at Audi where his mother used her influence to have him placed.

everbody tends to think R. Leidling ruined him.
but i don't think so. i like to think R. Leidling made him. or gave him the second chance to remake himself.

the 914 just drifts off into oblivion in the aftermath of the fiasco of 72.
whether porsche took over marketing or not.
even porsche's mind was turned elsewhere.
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StarBear
post Jun 18 2024, 05:26 PM
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@wonkipop
Next week will check out a fellow in NJ who has four 914s including two 1.8s. One parts car (in the database); the other running but not driven.
One has a 604 engine tin; what would that signify? Most 605 or 606?
Will check out all the particulars.
Still no additional info yet from that parts 1.8 in TN.
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wonkipop
post Jun 18 2024, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Jun 18 2024, 05:26 PM) *

@wonkipop
Next week will check out a fellow in NJ who has four 914s including two 1.8s. One parts car (in the database); the other running but not driven.
One has a 604 engine tin; what would that signify? Most 605 or 606?
Will check out all the particulars.
Still no additional info yet from that parts 1.8 in TN.


604 signifies EC-B (49 states) with no temp sensor plate on sump or gauges/console originally as delivered.

could be anything now on the temp gauge front as a lot of cars got modded but then again many 1.8s survive without that.

604 will have the EC-B emissions sticker and the two hose tune up sticker.

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wonkipop
post Jun 20 2024, 05:55 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Jun 18 2024, 05:26 PM) *

@wonkipop
Next week will check out a fellow in NJ who has four 914s including two 1.8s. One parts car (in the database); the other running but not driven.
One has a 604 engine tin; what would that signify? Most 605 or 606?
Will check out all the particulars.
Still no additional info yet from that parts 1.8 in TN.


@StarBear

a list of data info to assist.

emission sticker.
tune up sticker.
engine stencil stamp number. (look underneath as well - sump plate type - standard or oil temp pressure sender).
vin and k number.

console and gauges or not from new (if possible to assertain).

original point of sale (if possible to know).


additional.

charcoal can location. front trunk or engine bay.

rear trunk insulation pad. rigid type or low density foam pad.

engine bay insulation pad. grey smooth or black rippled finish.

fresh air blower box in front trunk. is it cardboard tube out of box or black plastic for first section of hose.

expansion tank on fuel tank. metal or plastic.

sun visor pins. metal or plastic.

interior finish on lower map pocket and passenger door handle. if colored (non black)
interior - same color as interior or black.

headlight motor covers. grey or black.

if black interior, is carpet later mottled or eariler fuzzy black similar to brown type carpet..

if still has owners manual and emissiions warranty - what type of emissions warranty.
see date on back cover of emissions warranty in roman numerals. will either be dated oct 73 or nov 73. see if you can get a picture of diagram of vapor emissions system in the emissions warranty.

windscreen. kinonglas or SIGLA. (if still an original screen).

if they are high vin number cars see if you can check the k number as either being stamped in rear trunk floor right hand side or on a data plate rivetted in front trunk as per @davep 's interest.

think that is about it for tracking changes on 74 1.8s.
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StarBear
post Jun 21 2024, 07:17 AM
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Got it! Think I’ll have to make a worksheet to bring with me. A lot of stuff!
Shooting for maybe Thursday next week to check out the two in Flanders.
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StarBear
post Jun 22 2024, 08:38 AM
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@wonkipop
@davep
@jeffbowlsby
Draft field data entry worksheet for review and comments. Too hot to go out and do anything else.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)
Attached File  914_Data_Inventory_Master_List.pdf ( 340.58k ) Number of downloads: 3
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davep
post Jun 22 2024, 11:23 AM
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I would add 914World user name of owner, engine & transmission serial #'s, interior color & seat insert type. We could add a list of paint codes and interior codes as an addendum to the form. Door glass type (Delodur -0 or -F).
Karmann body # stamped into right corner of rear trunk, or tag in front trunk.
I don't think we should limit this to the 1.8 engine cars. We could have a universal form or a set of forms for different cars. Listing of options would be a nice addition. We could add a list so that just codes can be entered to save space and add clarity. Optionally, an email address would be useful for contact purposes should we want to confirm something. A fillable PDF form would be useful so that data can be entered by computer for clarity.
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StarBear
post Jun 22 2024, 12:07 PM
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QUOTE(davep @ Jun 22 2024, 01:23 PM) *

I would add 914World user name of owner, engine & transmission serial #'s, interior color & seat insert type. We could add a list of paint codes and interior codes as an addendum to the form. Door glass type (Delodur -0 or -F).
Karmann body # stamped into right corner of rear trunk, or tag in front trunk.
I don't think we should limit this to the 1.8 engine cars. We could have a universal form or a set of forms for different cars. Listing of options would be a nice addition. We could add a list so that just codes can be entered to save space and add clarity. Optionally, an email address would be useful for contact purposes should we want to confirm something. A fillable PDF form would be useful so that data can be entered by computer for clarity.

Great suggestions! Will work on it.
I used to know how to do fillable Word docs converted to pdf; don’t have Acrobat to make forms directly.
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