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914/4: 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 914/6: 70 71 72

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> 1974 914 1.8, the mystery of the EC-A and EC-B
StarBear
post Jul 11 2022, 01:41 PM
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@rod911964 Rob - Here's the info we were discussing at the Gathering. Yours was produced only 2 weeks before mine (with the charcoal cannister in the back)!
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wonkipop
post Jul 12 2022, 06:29 PM
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@StarBear @Van B @JeffBowlsby

some more data i pulled down from a car just up for sale on BAT.
05/74 914 1.8.
VIN# 4742918254
K# 2019552 = mon 13 may 1974
fair condition car - mostly original.
no shots of tune up sticker or emission sticker.
but sold new in california - palo alto.
engine shots show that original distributor is gone and vacuum lines for retard and advance plugged and removed.
has engine tin paint stamp #606.
607 and 606 previously found to be EC-A engines.
also has no temp gauge sender lid or console with gauges - consistent with speculation that 606 means standard EC-A engine for 1.8 without console option fitted at factory.
i'll enter this data into the schedules on page 1 of the thread and update when i get some time.

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of interest it has metal expansion tank on fuel tank.
still using metal expansion tank in early may 74

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i have VIN ---18255 , one car after it, already on file from research last year but no images of frunk of that car in the file, so don't know what tank type it had.

by june 74 they were using the plastic expansion tank.
example VIN 4742920438.
no K# for that car but 17 cars from another on vin database here with K# indicating 28 June 74 build.

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i've not looked previously at this with the 1.8 research we did.
i have only a first edition of b. johnson book - restorers guide.
he may have updated the information regarding the plastic tank update.
in the first edition he gives a date of mid 1974.
unclear if he means calendar year or model year.
if he means calendar year he is close.
looks like it happens somewhere between may 13 and june 28.
if any more late production 74s show up post may 13 build date this might be pinned down as a date or vin if it has not already been done.
so far in our research a car has not shown up between these two examples.

the PET catalogue is very vague (incorrect!?) on both the charcoal cannister update and the plastic expansion tank update making it seem that both occur at end of 73 MY.
reality is quite different.

EDIT JULY 22 2022

turned up the stuff on example 1 VIN after blue car above - has metal expansion tank.

1.8 L jet likely EC-B (tune up sticker)
VIN 4742918255
K# 1959559 build commencement friday 10 may 1974

Vin is one number after blue car above, K number indicates build commences on the friday before the monday blue car above starts.

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Van B
post Jul 12 2022, 09:21 PM
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Our cars really were like a beta test for the L-Jet system and the changing emissions regulations.
Obviously it performed well, but they also didn’t waste time on refining the L-Jet in a 914 since the were on to the 928 and 924.
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StarBear
post Jul 13 2022, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Jul 12 2022, 11:21 PM) *

Our cars really were like a beta test for the L-Jet system and the changing emissions regulations.
Obviously it performed well, but they also didn’t waste time on refining the L-Jet in a 914 since the were on to the 928 and 924.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)
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StarBear
post Jul 13 2022, 02:20 PM
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Found another 74 (?) this morning behind a garage. Couldn't get the VIN but have asked the owner to dig in under the tie-down tarp to capture it. Might be a 73 as he said it came with a 1.7 engine, now out of it. Not in the VIN database, he says. Stay tuned.
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wonkipop
post Jul 17 2022, 07:04 AM
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came across another plastic expansion tank 74.
closer to the blue one with a metal expansion tank posted above.

this one is a 05/74, VIN 4742919034.
K# 222956(8?) last number hard to read.
build inception date = tuesday 28 may 1974.

puts date for change to plastic tank between mon 13 may and tuesday 28 may 74.

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EDIT 21 JULY 2022
just noticed thread up in garage section.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...360511&st=0
member harlespeed bought this car and has already half transformed it in to a beast of a machine. ha ha ha. research is barely one step ahead of the god of speed. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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StarBear
post Jul 18 2022, 06:52 AM
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@wonkipop BTW, what color is yours, and what type of wheels? Don’t recall ever seeing a photo of yours.
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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Jul 18 2022, 06:52 AM) *

@wonkipop BTW, what color is yours, and what type of wheels? Don’t recall ever seeing a photo of yours.


white with some patina.
no wheels. concrete blocks.
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


its a relic like yours.

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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 08:02 AM
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just been scratching through my files here a bit more.

and there is this.
there was some controversy about this car,
it was up for sale on BAT a few months back and had some dodgy stuff where the original chassis number in frunk on top of wheel arch had been covered with a chassis plate from another car as well as the windscreen vin having been tampered with.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1974-porsche-914-2-0-58/

general conclusion in the end was that the vin sticker and the chassis number engraved under the false plate as well as the real plate on the headlight bucket were in fact the real numbers.

had some photos of it on file - i relooked at them,
it has a plastic expansion tank.
VIN 4742918919
K # 2119545. = mon 20 may 1974.
narrows the gap to the change from metal tank to plastic tank to window of
mon 13 may to 20 may 1974. looking like its sometime in week 20 1974.

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i've gone back over all the examples i had on file and checked through them, and that was all i had.
but the green car above is a 2.0L car and we have been concentrating on 1.8 cars.
so there might still be some 74 cars on BAT archive that are cars built between these dates. when i get time i might try and pick through BAT looking at 2 L cars and see if anything else is there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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StarBear
post Jul 18 2022, 10:46 AM
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@wonkipop Something special made - for you from the friendly folks at 914 Brewing!
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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 04:48 PM
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QUOTE(StarBear @ Jul 18 2022, 10:46 AM) *

@wonkipop Something special made - for you from the friendly folks at 914 Brewing!
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

thanks mate.
i'll print that out and glue it to a bottle.
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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 05:17 PM
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@StarBear @JeffBowlsby @Van B

1.8 L jet research was kind of worth it.
did a 914world search - i see dr. 914 asked the question recently in 2020
(info for revised dr. b johnson book?)

he was close with his initial historical info -- but not quite.
had all 74 1.8s pegged as engine bay charcoal cans.
and plastic expansion tank change as late 1974 - meaning i think late MY 74?

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=346667

now we know
1) at least 3 weeks of 1.8s with frunk charcoal cannister up to approx nov 20 1973.
2) plastic expansion tank change is between mon 13 may (metal) and mon 20 may (plastic). week 20 of 1974. last metal tank i found is a 1.8. first plastic tank i found is a 2.0.

subset of 1) is that evap emissions plumbing is revised from porsche design to VW design at inception of engine bay cannister - approx nov 20 1973,

what i have been really looking for with any cars that come up on BAT is that elusive
EC-B emissions sticker with only USEPA approval. i'm starting to think that the sticker might apply to EC-B engines after a certain date in late 74 model year. likely perhaps the CARB put their foot down and made porsche/VW declare the EC-B as not approved for california. difficult information to find as not many BAT photos home in on the sticker, it is always hidden in most photo sets. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

in dr. 914's thread Maltese Falcon entered a post noting his 02/74 had a frunk charcoal can from new. given the wild drift in Vin numbers and K#s that has come up in the L jet research that does not surprise me now. i reckon there is a good chance Maltese Falcon's car might have been started in Oct 73 in the first batch of 914 2.0s and not finished and given a VIN until Feb 74. i will try and look through the Vin data base here and see if he has entered a K#. that will tell a story if the info is there.
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Van B
post Jul 18 2022, 05:54 PM
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@wonkipop how many US spec ‘74 1.8s do you think we’re made? Ball park
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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Jul 18 2022, 05:54 PM) *

@wonkipop how many US spec ‘74 1.8s do you think we’re made? Ball park



(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif)

6 months ago i would probably not be able to work it out.
there is production info on the website here in the 914 info section.
its been broken down into calendar years not model years.

and the problem is that the 74MY 1.8s are mixed in with the 75MY 1.8s for calendar year 74.

but given our research i am pretty sure that for 75 MY the 1.8 L jet is going in no other VW car except the 914 as the 412 ceased production. so i reckon a figure on 75s might be possible going off engine numbers. there is a separate number for 75 1,8s made in calendar year 75 so the maths is possible. that would get me to the subtracted number of 74 1.8s made in 1974. so i reckon i could get a real number. when i get time i might give it a try.

i think approx just over 20,000 MY 74 cars get made.
i'd guess its probably 2/3 1.8 to 1/3 2.0. say 13,000-14,000.
but i reckon i can get an actual figure for the model year which i have not seen elsewhere in my travels researching.

@Van B and @StarBear . i'm still laughing at the label. wallabies are real slow.
they just stand in the middle of the road and wait to get run over. don't even hop off.
was down in tasmania 4 years ago doing a combat drop job mission and had an audi a-3 sportback to drive. there are no roos in tasmania, just wallabies. i was hooking it back from lake pedder right in the middle of tas, a fantastic high class road that tasmania hydro built that goes nowhere except to the dam in the middle of the wilderness. one of the best drives in the world you can still do. no police. no speed cameras. lets just say i had the audi wound out. i could see a black spot on the road ahead. then i realised what it was. a fricken wallaby. the ABS was outstanding. i pulled up about 6 feet from the wallaby. it looked at me and stood there for about 10 seconds then slowly loped off the road doing that weird walk that roos and wallabies do where they put their little short arms down and kind of move their back legs through. couldn't even be bothered hopping off the road.
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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jul 18 2022, 04:48 PM) *

QUOTE(StarBear @ Jul 18 2022, 10:46 AM) *

@wonkipop Something special made - for you from the friendly folks at 914 Brewing!
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

thanks mate.
i'll print that out and glue it to a bottle.



EDIT
ps you have a very famous surname in australian architectural circles.
kevin borland was the architects name.
amazing post war architect. i met him a few times.
i had the honour of designing a tiny little staircase and passage structure that joins two buildings of his at a very special alternative school he designed in the 60s and 70s.
all under historical protection. guy was a legend.
wonder if you are related?

kev b exclusively drove citroens his whole life.
i got my first ride in a citroen in his car when i was a student in the late 70s.
blew my tiny little country boy brain as i was fresh in the big city riding in the passenger seat of a weird super sophisticated french luxury car.
his business partner at that time had a 75 911S. that guy still has the 911 to this day.
a bit you like you. never parted with his porsche.
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Van B
post Jul 18 2022, 08:08 PM
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I don’t know how I missed that label lol! You know, I would buy a six pack I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Your car is such a classic looking car too Wonki. Prob never gets old walking up to it.
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wonkipop
post Jul 18 2022, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Jul 18 2022, 08:08 PM) *

I don’t know how I missed that label lol! You know, I would buy a six pack I think (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)

Your car is such a classic looking car too Wonki. Prob never gets old walking up to it.



its peppered in dents. 50 years worth. mostly small dings. but i cannot bear to remove the original paint which has made it this far.

fortunately i never got tempted to repaint it or mess with it too much apart from having to do the conversion to rhd. once an absolute necessity by law. if only i had been able to wait a decade. but thems the breaks.

it spent 16 years until recently dry stored, i kind of had to get life back on track after some arbitrary disasters around the turn of the century. kind of helped with the body work / interior staying static and not decomposing. not so the mechanicals but!!!!
recommission was a fair bit of renewal. still ongoing thanks to your interests in perfection which has helped me get further in full functionality.

nihill44's cars are much better. his look fantastic in the photos he showed me. fully restored. he is a perfectionist. i'll drop in on him when i make it up to brisbane one day. nihill's got a special one. a 76 that seems to have been made on the last day.
he has rescued it from oblivion and wanton destruction.

i'm going to knock up a slab of beers with starbears labels.
i'll take a photo.
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wonkipop
post Jul 19 2022, 12:12 AM
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@Van B + @StarBear

speaking of walking up to the car and never feeling tired of it.

something out of the blue just happened which is worthy of report.
its been unbelievably cold here.
record low temps. other side of global warming???!!
last night dropped down to well below freezing (under 0 deg C).
never happens.
been cold and clear all day. my garage is as cold as a tomb.

i decided to take the 914 out for an errand - didn't get to run it on the weekend.

started it up and.........
it went to fast idle. around about 1400 rpm.
it stayed that way for about 3-4 minutes and settled down to 1000-950.

had a pleasant drive. roof off. heater on. clear blue skies and rugged up.

WTF

all i can think is the super cold weather must have somehow opened up the AAV or caused it to contract past a position it must be stuck in due to perhaps always having been sitting in one position for 16+ years and maybe there is a bit of surface corrosion it sticks on.
i did pull it out and clean it properly when i recommissioned 2 years ago but it didn't seem to do much except close when you warmed it up with current.
but this is something else - its never done it before since recommissioning.
a perfect warm up. it had to have opened up to a much larger orifice that it normally is resting at?

the more i think about it, this is what it used to do. hard to remember clearly, but i do think it was more or less just as it did today.

----guess all it took was for it to think it was back in maryland or chicago in the middle of winter and it came back from the dead. no doubt when its warmer it will go back to its old aussie habits and stop thinking its an american.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) but (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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wonkipop
post Jul 19 2022, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE(Van B @ Jul 18 2022, 05:54 PM) *

@wonkipop how many US spec ‘74 1.8s do you think we’re made? Ball park



ok i could get close with 74 but not exact using annual production figures from this website. it surprised me. fewer than i thought.

i could get an exact number for 75*.

reason i can't get an exact number for 74 is the production totals given here on the website are including euro spec 1.8s and no matter what cannot determine how many of those there were.

here is the breakdown for the 1.8.

74MY (made 73CY) = 3903

74MY + 75MY (made 74CY) = 11415

75MY (made 75CY) = 2455.

--------
can work out total 75 MY cars as 1.8 engines were only in 914s*.
number of EC 1.8 75 engines = EC0 037552 ---> EC0 045072 = 7520 cars.
number of AN 1.8 75 engines = AN0 008798 ---> AN0 008899 = 101 cars.*

total = 7621 cars.

7621 (TOTAL) - 2455 (75CY) = 5166 75 MY 1.8 made in CY74.
---------
for 1974.
11415 (TOTAL) - 5166 (75MY) = 6249 (74MY) made in CY74

total 74 MY = 6249 + 3903 = 10452 1974MY 1.8 in total.

don't have a way to break down between EC engines and AN engines in 74.
a total of 37551 EC engines were made for 74 MY and the bulk went into USA VW 412s.
a total of 8797 AN engines were made for 74MY and again the bulk went into euro VW 412s.

but what you can say is there were less than 10,452 74 1.8 L jets made.
probably around the 10,000 mark.

its only about 2/3 of my over optimistic guestimate.

of that how many survive reasonably intact today.
i'd say well less than half.

the VIN numbers for 74MY run up into about the 21,000 number looking at the members VIN list here.

its roughly 50% 2.0 and 50% 1.8 numbers for the 74 MY.
unless my maths is wrong.

i do think the bulk of 1.8s went to the USA.
you can see the hint in the 1975 production numbers for euro 1.8s.
they barely make any and its probably a similar story for 1974.
the europeans by and large bought the 2.0 L cars.
so USA numbers on 2.0 L to 1.8s is probably a 1/3 to 2/3 split.



*footnote.
there is a question mark around that.
i wont go into it.
but VW legend is there was a odd batch of 412s produced in 1975.
disconnected from the production run after the car was terminated.
but its shrouded in fog.
i can recall the stories from the 1980s.
a 411/412 VW enthusiast from new zealand had the info.
that might throw numbers out on AN engines.
we are only talking 100 cars at most.
who knows?
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StarBear
post Jul 19 2022, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jul 18 2022, 09:35 PM) *

QUOTE(wonkipop @ Jul 18 2022, 04:48 PM) *

QUOTE(StarBear @ Jul 18 2022, 10:46 AM) *

@wonkipop Something special made - for you from the friendly folks at 914 Brewing!
Attached Image


(IMG:style_emoticons/default/lol-2.gif)

thanks mate.
i'll print that out and glue it to a bottle.



EDIT
ps you have a very famous surname in australian architectural circles.
kevin borland was the architects name.
amazing post war architect. i met him a few times.
i had the honour of designing a tiny little staircase and passage structure that joins two buildings of his at a very special alternative school he designed in the 60s and 70s.
all under historical protection. guy was a legend.
wonder if you are related?

kev b exclusively drove citroens his whole life.
i got my first ride in a citroen in his car when i was a student in the late 70s.
blew my tiny little country boy brain as i was fresh in the big city riding in the passenger seat of a weird super sophisticated french luxury car.
his business partner at that time had a 75 911S. that guy still has the 911 to this day.
a bit you like you. never parted with his porsche.


@wonkipop Very interesting. Steven Borland is my wife’s nephew and used to work in a brewery so picked up some home brewing skill. His older brother is Kevin Borland but not an architect. He’s really into his family history so will ask him. Probably not as much of his family history is Poland.
Will try changing label font to white - might show up better. If you’d like the actual full file just pm your email to me. I’ll send both versions.
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