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> Oil capacity for 914-6 conversion, 2.4
Dion
post Jan 14 2022, 06:34 PM
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Hey Fellas , so I’m getting close to starting my 2.4L. I’ve read that the original 6 takes 9 quarts. Mine is slightly larger as stated. I want to start adding oil to the system. Not only to look for leaks but want to get some in the block so I can rotate her without fear of
scuffing up metal that shouldn’t. I know your supposed to check when hot and running.
How much would you add at first. Any starting procedure tips. It is carbed and does NOT have a front cooler. Appreciate any insight and experience.
Cheers, Dion

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Luke M
post Jan 14 2022, 06:50 PM
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We put 10 qts in my brothers 3.0 6 conv with an org 6 tank. I put some oil in the engine oil cooler before mounting it on the engine. Front oil cooler is not hooked up yet. Seamed to read a little on the high side once we got it running.
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Cairo94507
post Jan 14 2022, 07:13 PM
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I usually put about 9 quarts in my car and then take it for an easy drive to get it hot and make sure the oil cooler thermostat is open and then I checked it and top it off. I would guess about 10 to 11 quarts. I am guessing as I can never really get all of the oil out of the system.
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mb911
post Jan 14 2022, 07:19 PM
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9 qts. Start car and run until 180. Check oil level and top off as needed. This is assuming you have no external oil cooler
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rgalla9146
post Jan 14 2022, 08:20 PM
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Hey Dion
From empty I'd put in eight quarts and crank it with plugs out till you see the oil
pressure light go out.
Crank it once or twice more till light goes out each time.
Install plugs and start engine.
Add oil at idle until it touches the dipstick.
Allow engine to reach operating temperature.
At operating temp, at idle, on flat ground add oil untill it reads half way between
the bottom line and top line on the dipstick. Done.
Looking good, keep up the good work.
Rory
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lesorubcheek
post Jan 14 2022, 08:42 PM
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Beautiful engine Dion, and a great question. Been pondering the same thing. So, what if you aren't using a factory tank, dipstick or filler neck..... does anyone know approximately the actual level in a tank that's considered full? Say relative to the lower edge of the filler opening or some other point on the tank. I'm gonna need to calibrate a dipstick. Thought about looking at the 911's tank and see where it's dipstick full level sits relative to it's filler and use that. Doesn't seem to be an exact science, just gotta not overfill and have oil burping out all over, and obviously have enough that it isn't sucking air, but it'd be nice to hear from those with experience.

Dan
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IronHillRestorations
post Jan 14 2022, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ Jan 14 2022, 06:20 PM) *

Hey Dion
From empty I'd put in eight quarts and crank it with plugs out till you see the oil
pressure light go out.
Crank it once or twice more till light goes out each time.
Install plugs and start engine.
Add oil at idle until it touches the dipstick.
Allow engine to reach operating temperature.
At operating temp, at idle, on flat ground add oil untill it reads half way between
the bottom line and top line on the dipstick. Done.
Looking good, keep up the good work.
Rory


This is great advice.

If you have an external oil cooler I'd figure out it's volume and lines and add that to the 8 start up quarts. I haven't looked up the factory oil volume, but maybe 9.5 quarts? So figure the extra plus 9 and you should have a good place to reference the oil level on the dipstick, and mark it if need be.

Depending on the dipstick, it's possible to improperly seat the dipstick and insert it too far. The oval ring type with the band at the bottom of the ring, should clip over the side of the inner guide tube. The dipsticks that have the D loop handle don't have this problem.
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worn
post Jan 14 2022, 08:56 PM
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I think this is a really good question for anyone who has lost track of how much oil is in a dry sump system. With my 911 and 914-6 I have had oil leaks that could be little or could be large. All I know is that after 30 miles there is evidence of oil spreading out and about. You park, tighten up or otherwise fix the problem. But how much oil remains? I am terrified by the specter of low oil pressure. The net result has been over filling followed by a smoke screen that would do Bond or the US Navy proud.
Guidelines for starting with an unknown oil load would be very very useful for those with dry sumps.
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IronHillRestorations
post Jan 14 2022, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE(worn @ Jan 14 2022, 06:56 PM) *

I think this is a really good question for anyone who has lost track of how much oil is in a dry sump system. With my 911 and 914-6 I have had oil leaks that could be little or could be large. All I know is that after 30 miles there is evidence of oil spreading out and about. You park, tighten up or otherwise fix the problem. But how much oil remains? I am terrified by the specter of low oil pressure. The net result has been over filling followed by a smoke screen that would do Bond or the US Navy proud.
Guidelines for starting with an unknown oil load would be very very useful for those with dry sumps.


Not to hijack Dion's thread too much, but get a blacklight @worn Clean all the oil off really good and then drive it, and look at it at night under a blacklight. Oil flouresces (sp) under a blacklight. It can really help you source an oil leak.
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Dion
post Jan 14 2022, 09:57 PM
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Thanks guys for all the tips! Ok, will go with the 8qt. and proceed with caution. Thanks Rory.
I don’t have any coolers other than one on engine. So no guessing on filling up extra hoses.

Another question…related to starting a dormant engine.
Do you fellas do anything particular with the carbs? Do
you let the pump do its thing or do you add any fuel to the carbs bowls pre cranking?
They are recently rebuilt Webers but were stored for 3 years, only receiving WD40 coating occasionally.
Thanks again!
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roblav1
post Jan 14 2022, 10:37 PM
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If carbs sat 3 years, you might want to check the float valves. They're probably the most dangerous part of a Weber 911 engine.

If you can, use Realgas. Float level will change depending on the fuel density.

I prefer using a fuel pump switch. As previously mentioned, at first start, take out the plugs and crank until oil pressure. Leave the fuel pump off during this. Put the plugs back in, then turn on ignition and the fuel pump. Let pump run a minute or so. Go back to the engine and make sure no fuel leaks. You should check fuel height in the 4 fuel bowls with the float level gauge. When satisfied, attemp start. You'll need to pump the throttle many times during crank and for the first minute or so when the engine starts.

Good luck!

QUOTE(Dion @ Jan 14 2022, 10:57 PM) *

Thanks guys for all the tips! Ok, will go with the 8qt. and proceed with caution. Thanks Rory.
I don’t have any coolers other than one on engine. So no guessing on filling up extra hoses.

Another question…related to starting a dormant engine.
Do you fellas do anything particular with the carbs? Do
you let the pump do its thing or do you add any fuel to the carbs bowls pre cranking?
They are recently rebuilt Webers but were stored for 3 years, only receiving WD40 coating occasionally.
Thanks again!

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Dion
post Jan 14 2022, 11:00 PM
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@roblav1 , Nice! That’s perfectly spelled out for me. Thank you! I’ve fuel injection cars for so long, forgotten a proper start procedure for the carbs.
Thanks again .
Cheers, Dion
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mb911
post Jan 15 2022, 07:31 AM
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QUOTE(lesorubcheek @ Jan 14 2022, 06:42 PM) *

Beautiful engine Dion, and a great question. Been pondering the same thing. So, what if you aren't using a factory tank, dipstick or filler neck..... does anyone know approximately the actual level in a tank that's considered full? Say relative to the lower edge of the filler opening or some other point on the tank. I'm gonna need to calibrate a dipstick. Thought about looking at the 911's tank and see where it's dipstick full level sits relative to it's filler and use that. Doesn't seem to be an exact science, just gotta not overfill and have oil burping out all over, and obviously have enough that it isn't sucking air, but it'd be nice to hear from those with experience.

Dan




Dan,

My tanks are larger.. again the proper procedure so everyone is on the same page and more detail then last response. Keep in mind I have sold 100s of tanks and have explained this thousands of times.

1. No external oil cooler fill tank with 9 qts.

2. Turn the engine over with now plugs or fuel until oil pressure

3. Start engine and get to 180 degrees on a flat level surface.

4. Mark the dipstick so you know the minimum level.

5. For my tanks and larger capacity oil lines add another 1qt max.

6 again follow steps 1 -4 to the tee don't vary and you will be golden.

7 don't ever trust dip stick level fill lines without following steps 1-4.

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Mark Henry
post Jan 15 2022, 08:55 AM
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I fill the tank till I can see oil on the dipstick, then it's safe to start. I don't go by the amount it's suppose to take, as you could overfill the tank.
I always run my tank in the lower half of the dipstick marks, never at the full line. I find I have the lowest oil consumption at this mark, less than a liter (quart) per oil change.
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mb911
post Jan 15 2022, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 15 2022, 06:55 AM) *

I fill the tank till I can see oil on the dipstick, then it's safe to start. I don't go by the amount it's suppose to take, as you could overfill the tank.
I always run my tank in the lower half of the dipstick marks, never at the full line. I find I have the lowest oil consumption at this mark, less than a liter (quart) per oil change.



That is good advice as well.

On oil changes I also measure the total amount drained to ensure no over filling.
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lesorubcheek
post Jan 15 2022, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 15 2022, 07:31 AM) *
Dan,
My tanks are larger.. again the proper procedure so everyone is on the same page and more detail then last response. Keep in mind I have sold 100s of tanks and have explained this thousands of times.


Thanks Ben. Appreciate your explanation. Mark, you make alot of sense too. Thanks.

Dion, on the topic of initial engine run, there's some interesting posts on pelican regarding first starts and break in. Most key in on whether the engine has new cams and/or new pistons/rings, or whether it's original components. Not sure of the details of your engine, so this may not matter for you. You may well be aware of this anyway, so please ignore if so. Most posts are consistent with what you hear regarding any type engine. New cams need constant rpm but not too fast, ensuring good oil pressure and a break in time of ~20 minutes. New rings need varying load for break in which is contrary to cam break in procedure. Most agree the make sure cams are treated nicely first, then drive it with varying load for ring seating.

Another reference is the Dempsey book on rebuilding 911 engines. His book is assuming a complete rebuild. After the initials steps of cranking engine with plugs out to ensure oil pressure, and steps for getting fuel system ready, he says to start engine, bring to 2000 rpm and using a stop watch, run it for 20 minutes. Switch off and drain the oil. Refill with oil. For the first drive, take it out for 3 to 5 miles, varying rpm and keeping it under 5k. Drive it back home and check oil level. He doesn't say whether to let the engine cool or not, but think he intends to keep it warm, just make sure you check the oil level. Then take it for a second drive of 8 to 10 miles, driving the same as the first drive. Drain the oil again. He does specify to let the engine cool completely before driving again the following day. On the following day, check ignition timing and adjust carbs as needed, warm up by driving and then check oil level again. He recommends another oil change at 500 miles along with adjusting valve clearance, at least on magnesium case engines.

Lots of opinions out there. Dempsey's seems hyper-conservative nth degree of perfection as opposed to just jump in and drive it and change the oil after it starts looking dark would kinda be on the other end.

Dan
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Dion
post Jan 15 2022, 03:23 PM
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@lesorubcheek Dan, thanks for the info. Engine has 20,000k miles on the rebuild.
It’s been sitting quietly, waiting for the past 5 yrs. to be awakened again. I’ve been hitting it with fogging oil and hand turning every month.
So hopefully with all the excellent suggestions it’ll wake up appropriately.
Hoping to do this soon.
Thanks again!
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